Author Topic: Suggestions for Stirling engine for Spring class project at CCBC in MD  (Read 10502 times)

Offline PStechPaul

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I have not been very active here lately because of various other projects and my classes in Machine Tool Processes at the local community college. The fall semester is just about over and my project was a little toolmaker's vise, which I completed a couple weeks ago (partly with my own milling machine but mostly on the school's Bridgeports and Clausings and Chevalier surface grinder):





But the Spring semester will involve making a small engine, usually an air/steam type, but optionally a Stirling, which I have been interested in for a long time. The object of the course will be further experience and more advanced skills on the manual machines, with an emphasis on different materials, fit, and finish. The instructor said that I could choose plans other than what they offered, and being motivated by a challenge and a flair for the unusual, I'd like to find a Stirling engine that might meet these requirements. I'd prefer something large enough to be at least somewhat practical, perhaps combining it with a generator to produce at least a couple of watts and ideally as much as 100 or more, but I realize that would be quite large, heavy, expensive, and impractical.  :thinking: :headscratch: :ShakeHead:

I did a search on this forum for "Stirling" and found surprisingly little. I started a thread on April Fools' Day with my early ideas and there are some links there to some kits and plans, but I thought I'd ask if anyone had any specific recommendations for what I want to attempt. I will probably finish my unusual two-piston single cylinder air/steam engine over the winter break, and possibly also the Stirling in time for Cabin Fever in April. TIA!  :)

[edit] Some ideas I found:
[youtube1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7lUzKfdHd4[/youtube1] (700 watt prototype)

[youtube1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egSTMJLXmFo[/youtube1] (carbon piston Stirling)

[youtube1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpZpjH71320[/youtube1] (magnet Stirling)

[youtube1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv85wPGRpv8[/youtube1] (another one, with build details)

[youtube1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTnUYZGo0qY[/youtube1] (twin walking beam)

[youtube1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNDNCKzfHSI[/youtube1] (3 cylinder power plant Stirling - cute)

[youtube1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9UKu-AP02k[/youtube1] (Philips Stirling generator - 100W, maybe 1 kW?)

[youtube1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7YK3Gd0thg[/youtube1] (solar powered Stirling generator - 1 volt!)

[youtube1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll598PVTHAw[/youtube1] (walking beam Stirling 1600 RPM 3V generator)

[youtube1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu29LY25PBI[/youtube1] (shows it running an electric motor)

[youtube1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osNluWPOpJ0[/youtube1] (Stirling powered canoe)

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvtekHPzbUw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvtekHPzbUw</a> (Novel cam-piston design)


 
« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 11:19:37 AM by PStechPaul »

Offline Nerdz

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Re: Suggestions for Stirling engine for Spring class project at CCBC in MD
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2014, 12:25:39 PM »
Have you tried Jan Ridders Website? The Thermo-mobile would make an excellent show stopper because it only has one piston

http://ridders.nu/Webpaginas/pagina_thermo_acoustic_mobiel/acoustic_frameset.htm

Ive attempted the LSE-01 but have trouble with the piston fit:

http://www.bekkoame.ne.jp/~khirata/english/mk_l01.htm

Someone did build it over at another forum
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/stirling-engines/84049-another-stirling.html

Theres quite a few on on scrap to power

http://www.scraptopower.co.uk/can-stirling/make-a-coke-can-stirling-engine

But you would have to convert the dimensions of a soda can into something a machinist could use..but The way I look at it, is if they can do it with soda cans, why cant we improve on it?
-Chris

Offline b.lindsey

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Re: Suggestions for Stirling engine for Spring class project at CCBC in MD
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2014, 12:41:51 PM »
Paul, another one I like and have built is Jerry Howell's Vintage Stirling engine. He has others as well and his plans are top notch!

http://www.model-engine-plans.com/engineplans/stirling/vintage.htm?19,26

Bill

Offline PStechPaul

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Re: Suggestions for Stirling engine for Spring class project at CCBC in MD
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2014, 02:13:53 PM »
There are quite a few of the Howell engines that are intriguing and all seem reasonably priced, well designed, and aesthetically pleasing. I like the Ringbom, Beamer, Duplex, and Vickie Victorian. Each has some unique characteristics that I like.

Of course I am always seeking new challenges and the design engineer in me yearns to make "improvements" that may or may not be successful, so I'd best go with a complete set of plans and stick to the design before tinkering with it. I am intrigued by the possibility of using alternate materials, and I want to try some of the high temperature ceramic casting compounds that are available from McMaster:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#casting-compounds/=uv272c

I think the shock resistant silica might be best for things like the cylinder and piston and heat exchanger, and it may be useful for other things as well, such as electrical insulators. I don't have any experience with the material but it seems easy to use and fairly inexpensive. It may even suffice as an alternative to cast iron for some models, and once a mold is made from urethane or silicone, it should be possible to make many identical copies of a part that may first be made from aluminum or plastic to make the mold. Anyone have any experience with this stuff?

I think I'll discuss this with the instructor at class tomorrow and also ask him about the Stirling kits.

Thanks.

Offline mklotz

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Re: Suggestions for Stirling engine for Spring class project at CCBC in MD
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2014, 06:14:14 PM »
If this is your first Stirling I surely wouldn't try any experimentation, especially with unproven materials.

Fit and finish is far more important than material with Stirlings.  Take a proven design and prove your skills by building it and getting it to run.  The latter is no mean feat; in our sizes these engines have barely enough power to turn themselves over.

Avoid the one piston thermal pulse design engines (which really aren't Stirlings) and LTD Stirlings.  Both are even harder to get running.  Build a conventional ninety degree offset crank engine with a graphite piston and a thin steel hot cap.  Given enough heat this design will usually run if leaks and friction are well controlled.
Regards, Marv
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fcheslop

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Re: Suggestions for Stirling engine for Spring class project at CCBC in MD
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2014, 07:21:13 PM »
My first Stirling was Dr Senfits Moriya and she ran straight away and no errors I can remember on the drawings.
She has ran many of hours at shows over the last 15 years and still goes like the clappers. I ended up fitting plain bearings to slow her down as Iv never fitted the fan.
The Magnet engine by Jan Ridders and his Thermo pulse are challenging to say the least and the one in the video by H Visser has a lot of modifications that dont look obvious at first glance. It took me a while to twig what he had done to the displacer before the light came on :headscratch: although I could have asked him and saved some time its my stubbornness 
cheers

Offline b.lindsey

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Re: Suggestions for Stirling engine for Spring class project at CCBC in MD
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2014, 02:10:11 AM »
I have to second what Marv said above Paul. Plenty of time for experimentation later on. Get that first one under your belt. I have found Jerry's designs to be as bullet proof as possible given the fact that Stirlings in general can be fussy. Fit, finish, and free movement are everything!!!

Bill
« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 12:01:53 PM by b.lindsey »

Offline Ian S C

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Re: Suggestions for Stirling engine for Spring class project at CCBC in MD
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2014, 11:40:32 AM »
Paul, the best I have are the books by James G. Rizzo, a paper back "Modelling Stirling and Hot Air Engines", this is almost the same as the 1st volume of "The Stirling Engine Manual", there is also " The Stirling Engine Manual" volume 2, the engines in the latter book are a bit more complex.
Although most of my engines are to my own design, my second motor is based on "Dyna" from the paper back, it's 22 yrs old now, and goes better than ever, it has worn out a crankshaft, but that was poor design on my behalf(I didn't know it would run long enough to do any damage) 
Philips MP 1002 CA Air Engine 180 watts 220 V AC 50Hz.
                                            Ian S C
« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 11:54:00 AM by Ian S C »

Offline PStechPaul

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Re: Suggestions for Stirling engine for Spring class project at CCBC in MD
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2014, 05:07:45 AM »
That's a pretty good size engine. I looked up the Philips Stirling cycle generator (which is pictured in one of the videos I show), and found some good information:

http://www.oldengine.org/members/croft/images/MP1002CA.pdf

http://wn.com/philips_stirling_cycle_generator (video might be the same)

http://tallbloke.wordpress.com/2013/04/19/free-piston-stirling-engines-nice-technology-for-tinkerers/

Searching on James Rizzo:

http://www.energybook.co.uk/Robert-Stirling-Models-of-the-Air-Engine.html

http://www.steves-workshop.co.uk/steammodels/stirling/stirlingengineindex.htm

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Robert-Stirlings-Models-Air-Engine/dp/0954713192

Seems like the books are rather rare, and expensive if they can be found. I'd be pretty happy with something like 1/10 the power of the Philips. But 180 watts is about 1/4 HP and enough to power a small vehicle like a bike or mini-tractor. Definitely I'll build the first one from plans to make sure it actually works, and then maybe I'll get adventurous.

I might start with the "duplex", which requires only ability level 3 of 10, and it may have enough power to do something useful:

http://www.model-engine-plans.com/engineplans/stirling/duplex.htm


Offline b.lindsey

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Re: Suggestions for Stirling engine for Spring class project at CCBC in MD
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2014, 11:59:34 AM »
You might want to check that again Paul. The link shows experience level 7, not that you aren't up to it, just want to make sure you know what your biting off there :)

As I recall our member here (Dean W) did a nice build log of this engine over on the other site. His handle there is Deanofid IIRC. Actually that engine is his avatar here on this site so you might want to check out his build log as well.

Bill

Offline PStechPaul

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Re: Suggestions for Stirling engine for Spring class project at CCBC in MD
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2014, 04:39:25 AM »
OK, I'll check that out. I found the thread on the other forum but I may have to register to see images:
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/showthread.php?t=8197

Here's his video:

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1m1h506Dv0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1m1h506Dv0</a>

I had also looked at the Victorian and Beamer, but they are even more complex. So otherwise I might consider the Ringbom (level 5) http://www.model-engine-plans.com/engineplans/stirling/ringbom.htm:



Or the Super Stirling Fan (level 4) http://www.model-engine-plans.com/engineplans/stirling/superfan.htm:



It looks as if the materials kits only contain the special or hard-to-find parts, so I'd like to see the BOMs for these projects so I know what I'll need. Then I can see if I can get it from school or if I need to order it. I usually order from McMaster, and although they are not the cheapest, their shipping is very reasonable and since they are nearby in NJ, usually I get things next day. Otherwise Speedy Metals seems to be a good source especially for custom cut lengths. It seems like my other favorite suppliers SteelDawg (Oakland Steel) and Exact Metals have disappeared, at least on eBay. The MetalMerchant is still there: http://stores.ebay.com/Industrial-Metal-Sales-586-783-2238?_rdc=1.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2014, 04:53:43 AM by PStechPaul »

Offline Dave Otto

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Re: Suggestions for Stirling engine for Spring class project at CCBC in MD
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2014, 06:09:18 PM »
You don't need to register, the pictures just don't exist anymore. A lot of the guys removed there pictures when they left.

Dave

Offline PStechPaul

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Re: Suggestions for Stirling engine for Spring class project at CCBC in MD
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2014, 01:24:20 AM »
It would be nice to find a build thread on some of these Stirling engines. Too bad that thread and others have not been copied or moved here or to an independent file server. An excellent alternative is a video containing the still shots as well as movie clips, and text, to document a build. Looks like it might be up to me when I build mine.

Offline SHOPGUY

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Re: Suggestions for Stirling engine for Spring class project at CCBC in MD
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2014, 04:57:47 AM »
Here is an engine I made back in 2008 from an article in a 1961 Popular science magazine. Original by Harry Walton
It probably is within the skill set of most students.
Ernie J

Offline PStechPaul

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Re: Suggestions for Stirling engine for Spring class project at CCBC in MD
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2014, 01:44:38 AM »
I found some kits and a book from Grizzly:
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Horizontal-Stirling-Engine-Kit/H8101 $85
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Vertical-Stirling-Engine-Kit/H8103 $95
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Eleven-Stirling-Engine-Projects-Book/T24632 (book) $25

I found a pretty good description and animation of how Stirling engines of the three basic types work:

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQb2sN6UWkA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQb2sN6UWkA</a>

The Tesla Turbine was also very interesting:

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrnul6ixX90" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrnul6ixX90</a>

as well as the Tesla Valve:

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYlP5TEKf2w" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYlP5TEKf2w</a>

Offline PStechPaul

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Re: Suggestions for Stirling engine for Spring class project at CCBC in MD
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2014, 02:03:41 AM »
I am also revisiting my original idea for a Stirling type heat engine:






This eventually morphed into my plans for an air engine with a rotary valve, which is partially completed. But I'll try to grasp the fundamentals of the Stirling designs and see if it can be used for something like this, with two pistons and two displacers. The Alpha design of the video animation made me think about the possibility of a four cylinder radial design, with another pair of hot/cold cylinders on the same crankshaft. And maybe incorporate the Tesla valve in a motor. So many ideas, so little experience, time, and energy.  :noidea: :old: :shrug:

Offline Longboy

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Re: Suggestions for Stirling engine for Spring class project at CCBC in MD
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2014, 05:39:53 AM »
Paul......If your illustrated model here is the revision, it isn't going to run as a Stirling.
Wadda you mean, "It don't run"???

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Suggestions for Stirling engine for Spring class project at CCBC in MD
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2014, 11:55:29 AM »
I found some kits and a book from Grizzly:
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Horizontal-Stirling-Engine-Kit/H8101 $85
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Vertical-Stirling-Engine-Kit/H8103 $95

Paul.
Those engines, are poor runners. Even when bought, factory assembled.......  :ShakeHead:

The ratio, between piston/ displacer, is insufficient.

I rebuilt one, by reducing the power piston dia.
The other by increasing the displacer diameter.

Both, now work very well....... 


David D
David.
Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!
Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Offline Lew Hartswick

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Re: Suggestions for Stirling engine for Spring class project at CCBC in MD
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2014, 02:42:23 PM »
An interesting demo. BUT if that "valve" were installed in water pumps most of the folks that depend on
it for a drink would have died of dehydration shortly. :-)   
   ...lew...
re the Tesla valve: I didn't realize how far it was from the end of the thread.
   ..lew..

Offline b.lindsey

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Re: Suggestions for Stirling engine for Spring class project at CCBC in MD
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2014, 05:22:50 PM »
Paul, if you haven't seen it before, this site has some good animations of various types of engines including but not limited to Stirlings.

http://www.animatedengines.com/

Bill

 

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