Author Topic: Moriya by Dr James R Senft  (Read 6373 times)

Offline chucketn

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Moriya by Dr James R Senft
« on: October 17, 2014, 02:19:55 PM »
For all the Stirling Engine experts here, I have the book, “Steam and Stirling Engines You Can Build” . In it, is the Moriya Stirling Fan, by Dr. Senft.  The plans for this Stirling Engine are also available from a couple of college websites.
I would like to modify this design to run on the heat from a wood stove, instead of the alcohol lamp as shown in the plans. What would I need to do? Would it work if I just shortened the legs to allow the hot end rest on the stovetop? Or, maybe make an aluminum plate to set the hot end in, which would in turn rest on the stovetop?
Can I post a picture of the Moriya from the book? Has anyone built this engine?
Chuck

Online b.lindsey

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Re: Moriya by Dr James R Senft
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2014, 02:57:15 PM »
Interesting question Chuck. You can google stove top stirling fans and see some images of various designs so it can be made to work. In most cases the hot cap volume appears to be larger though likely do to the stove top heat being more generally spread out but less intense than a flame. I suspect Moriya could be adapted but would take some serious modifications to the hot cap area.

Bill

Online kev

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Re: Moriya by Dr James R Senft
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2014, 04:16:33 PM »
keep looking for the web sites with these plans but can never find them, any clues I would love to make this fan

Online Jo

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Re: Moriya by Dr James R Senft
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2014, 04:31:52 PM »
Can I post a picture of the Moriya from the book?

UK copyright lets us post pictures that are covered by copyright to aid us when we are discussing something, I would assume international copyright is the same, so yes you can post a picture from the book ;)

I keep wanting to make a log fire Stirling engine but ended up being given one of these heat powered electric fans which is nice and small and very effective.  ;D

Jo
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Offline mklotz

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Re: Moriya by Dr James R Senft
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2014, 04:54:24 PM »
Putting the hot cap directly on the stove sounds reasonable.  However the Moriya design has the cold end of the displacer chamber on top of the hot end.  This means that the heat rising from the stove will heat the cold end and, since it's a pure Carnot engine, the power generated will be reduced.  I  would be concerned about how you will maintain sufficient delta-T to power the blades.

It's a design that crys out for a water jacket.  Nevertheless, Senft knows what he's doing and the British used that design for their fans in India during the Raj so it can't be that bad.  Besides, a fan doesn't need much power.
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Offline chucketn

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Re: Moriya by Dr James R Senft
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2014, 05:38:00 PM »
Here is where I found some info, a copy of the article in the formentioned ook, and revised drawings of the Moriya Fan.

http://courses.washington.edu/me355b/labs.html
Chuck

Offline Kim

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Re: Moriya by Dr James R Senft
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2014, 08:48:35 PM »
Hi Chuck,
This project is on my short list too.  I almost started the Moriya instead of the grinding rest I'm working on now. But obviously didn't :)
Its still on the top of my list though!

Thanks for posting the link.  Looks like all they did is take the drawings from the book and enlarge them, which would probably have been my first step anyway. So that will save me some time!

Hope you're planning on posting your build here for us to follow!
Kim

fcheslop

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Re: Moriya by Dr James R Senft
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2014, 10:59:05 PM »
Iv built her and cannot remember any probs with the drawings. I used plain bearings to just to slow her down and have never got round to making the fan.
Didnt use asbestos for the insulator :ShakeHead: just some sandanyo plate
I can post a couple of pics if you should want them
She has many hours running under her belt and still goes like the clappers
cheers
« Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 11:05:01 PM by fcheslop »

Offline chucketn

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Re: Moriya by Dr James R Senft
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2014, 01:45:34 AM »
fcheslop,
What is sandanyo plate? Not a familiar term to this yank!

Chuck

Offline Ian S C

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Re: Moriya by Dr James R Senft
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2014, 12:47:11 PM »
Here is a photo of my own design stove top fan motor, the blades are wooden, and have a wire cage around them when running.  The base is a 150 mm dia X 8 mm disc of hot rolled steel.    Ian S C

Online kev

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Re: Moriya by Dr James R Senft
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2014, 01:51:29 PM »
Can I post a picture of the Moriya from the book?

UK copyright lets us post pictures that are covered by copyright to aid us when we are discussing something, I would assume international copyright is the same, so yes you can post a picture from the book ;)

I keep wanting to make a log fire Stirling engine but ended up being given one of these heat powered electric fans which is nice and small and very effective.  ;D

Jo

Interesting statement Jo, not sure what "Permitted rights" exception your thinking about other that the research one but that only applies to people and discussions as part of a recognised educational course. Could you enlighten me please? 

Online Jo

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Re: Moriya by Dr James R Senft
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2014, 02:40:11 PM »
Kev, the restriction to recognised education courses is a myth. Under the fair dealing clause the 1988 Act permits copying for the following purposes:

a, private study or research
b, criticism or review,
c, to report current events.

How much could be copied under fair dealing is always a difficult issue to address but a single photograph to aid our discussion and review of the suitability of starting from Moriya  to make a stove engine I would consider acceptable.

Jo
Usus est optimum magister

Online kev

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Re: Moriya by Dr James R Senft
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2014, 03:20:22 PM »
The whole area is very difficult Jo, this is the extract from a Gov document that im referring to

"Non-commercial research and private study

You are allowed to copy limited extracts of works when the use is non-commercial research or private study, but you must be genuinely studying (like you would if you were taking a college course). "

so if push came to shove would a forum chat be sufficient proof that you were genuinely studying and does "copy(ing)" include copy to another internet site that is open to the public and not "Private". If so the game is open and one can use "anything" found on other peoples web sites even if they claim copyright

Sorry this is getting well off topic ill shut up now, please feel free to delete this short discussion if inappropriate to the thread :)

fcheslop

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Re: Moriya by Dr James R Senft
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2014, 04:29:30 PM »
Hi Chuck , it maybe a brand or local name.
Its a heat resistant material used to insulate the tool from the platens on injection moulding machines.
Sort of a fibre glass with ceramic material
You can see it between the hot cap and engine .
cheers
frazer

Offline chucketn

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Re: Moriya by Dr James R Senft
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2014, 05:13:21 PM »
Thanks, Frazer.I thought as much, but wanted to be sure.
I think Ihave a piece of similar material in my Dad's stuff.

Chuck