Author Topic: Rider Ericsson will not run - HELP!!!  (Read 9406 times)

Online b.lindsey

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Re: Rider Ericsson will not run - HELP!!!
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2014, 02:03:49 AM »
Dave, I wasn't trying to be argumentative by any means.  The linkage of the RE is heavy to start with.  My little fan does in fact have a small bit of compression, but much lighter linkage too, so you may be right on linkage hiding some of it on the RE . Stan, I am about out of ideas now, but it has to be something minor I really believe.

Bill

Offline Dave Otto

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Re: Rider Ericsson will not run - HELP!!!
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2014, 02:39:45 AM »
No problem Bill,

It is nice that we can present different ideas about our experiences and findings with our projects.

Dave

Offline Robert Hornby

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Re: Rider Ericsson will not run - HELP!!!
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2014, 08:30:50 AM »
Hi Stan,
The 'Cup of Tea' engine I built a few years ago just would not run no matter what. I put photos on another forum (specifically for hot air engines) and a couple of members suggested the flywheel might have been a bit on the heavy side. I reduced the weight by about half and it ran straight away.
Robert
Age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill

Offline sshire

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Re: Rider Ericsson will not run - HELP!!!
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2014, 01:09:11 PM »
Thanks,Robert.
Given the number of these that I've seen running at shows from the same casting set, I assume that the flywheel (it is quite heavy) weight is correct. I will put that thought on the ever-growing, "why won't the damn thing run" list.
Last night, I took the engine apart and measured everything against the print dimensions. No help there. Everything is "close enough," however, a clue surfaced. When I removed the flywheel and moved the beam without it, the piston was quite tight in the cylinder. I hadn't noticed this when hand turning the flywheel because it's mass was masking the tightness.
I put the engine on the lathe bed and "ran it in" for 15 minutes. This loosened things up quite a bit as the cylinder packing seated. Actually, after 10 minutes, I didn't detect any difference in movement so I assume the packing is compressed as much as its going to be.
If it's still not running, I either need a smaller diameter packing or I'll put the piston back on the lathe to very slightly deepen the packing groove.
A report will follow later today.
Again, thanks for all of the suggestions. Keep thinking.
Best,
Stan

Offline Ian S C

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Re: Rider Ericsson will not run - HELP!!!
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2014, 01:23:36 PM »
Robert, what sort of displacer does it have, sealed cylinder, or with a regenerator built into it?  If the former, check it for leaks, take it out and put it in a pot of hot water, if it blows bubbles that's your problem.
      You mention Teflon packing on the piston,  in my mind not a good idea, it swells with heat.  I find that a cast iron piston, in either a cast iron, or steel bore is quite enough.  The place I use Teflon is the bush in the gland through the piston, the stuff I use is carbon impregnated.      Ian S C

Offline Robert Hornby

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Re: Rider Ericsson will not run - HELP!!!
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2014, 11:52:08 PM »
Stan, if it is not too difficult try a temporary lightweight flywheel in aluminum of similar just to disprove/remove this as a possible reason.
Robert 
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Offline philjoe5

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Re: Rider Ericsson will not run - HELP!!!
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2014, 02:30:12 AM »
As a note of further interest.... I recently bought the Myers casting kit from a friend of mine.  I think it dates back 30 years or so.  My friend gave me two flywheels for it.  One was the stock aluminum one and the other was cast iron and it's quite a lump of iron.  The story goes that some folks had trouble getting this engine to run with the stock ally wheel because it was too light so Myers also supplied the cast iron flywheel for it.  I think I got that right.

Cheers,
Phil
If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man.  - Mark Twain

Offline sshire

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Re: Rider Ericsson will not run - HELP!!!
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2014, 03:26:19 AM »
Phil
With that CI flywheel, no heat needed. Just give it a spin. Should run for about a week.
Best,
Stan

Offline Hopper

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Re: Rider Ericsson will not run - HELP!!!
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2014, 06:59:28 AM »
It seems 90 per cent of Stirling problems boil down to two things: friction and leaks. Sounds like you are on to it with the teflon seal ring. An old rule of thumb is that you should be able to spin the flywheel and have it continue turning over for a revolution or two. IE virtually no friction at all.
I don't know if the teflon piston seal ring is standard procedure on those RE kits, but it is pretty unusual to have piston ring/s in a Stirling, as Ian said.

For leaks it might be worth lightly pressurizing the whole system to a few psi with comp air or bicycle pump etc and put the whole thing under water to look for bubbles.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 07:02:42 AM by Hopper »

Offline sshire

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Re: Rider Ericsson will not run - HELP!!!
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2014, 01:01:12 PM »
I think I've found the problem (or at least one problem). The consensus seemed to point to drag or a leak. Even without the flywheel mass, I can easily move the beam and the piston seems pretty free.
So, I removed the entire top end (beam, piston, displacer, etc) and filled the engine with water.
Look here at the hot cap flange.

I'll address that this morning. Perhaps it will run.
Best,
Stan

Online b.lindsey

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Re: Rider Ericsson will not run - HELP!!!
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2014, 01:03:24 PM »
Looks like you may have found the culprit Stan...keeping my fingers crossed !!

Bill

Offline Ian S C

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Re: Rider Ericsson will not run - HELP!!!
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2014, 02:40:16 PM »
    I think you should be able to cure that with some Loctite,  that's what I use to attach the flange to the hot cap instead of brazing it.
    As for fly wheels, when you get it going, try an experiment, take the flywheel off, then start it, it should run, fast, but no torque.  There is enough flywheel effect in the crankshaft, and the rest of the mechanism.
                                                                    Ian S C

Offline sshire

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Re: Rider Ericsson will not run - HELP!!!
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2014, 03:07:03 PM »
Ian
I had considered Loctite but even the HiTemp Loctite putty has a max temp of 450F.
My hot cap, at the bottom, is measuring approx 450.
I've put Quick Steel around the flange. It's for repairing manifolds, etc and has a max temp of 2400F.

I also checked the displacer for leaks. That's OK. No leaks. I was wondering
 why does a displacer need to be airtight?
Best,
Stan

Offline tvoght

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Re: Rider Ericsson will not run - HELP!!!
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2014, 03:38:29 PM »
why does a displacer need to be airtight?

I had wondered the same thing. My conclusion was that slow leaks probably wouldn't matter that much. If you look at old patents, you'll see that some practitioners advocated putting
a one-way valve in the displacer so that it would maintain the highest engine pressure inside. This was said to be because it would tend to be a more viable pressure vessel than vacuum vessel.

--TIm


Offline sshire

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Re: Rider Ericsson will not run - HELP!!!
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2014, 10:38:51 PM »
Thanks to everyone for the help, suggestions and off-the-wall comments. It all helped to give me  a direction to search for problems.
It's obvious that the hot cap leak was one reason, but I also did other things. Not sure if they fixed any issues but they may be helpful for some future builds that may not run.

1. Remade the piston center for a tighter fit to the displacer rod. Then, today, I opened the bottom up by .001. ????
2. repacked the teflon on the cylinder

Assembled and disassembled at least 50 times. I'm really good at it now.
I still have some drag on the pump which I suspect is a pack nut adjustment or packing issue. I'll address that tomorrow.

Now I can (after I run it a few times and just watch it) take it apart, sand, file, fill and generally get it ready for painting.

I also have to get the pump side plates to the laser engraving guy for the Victorian scrollwork.

I'll be posting the last few installments of the build log over the next week.

Again, thank you, thank you and thank you.

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« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 10:56:24 PM by sshire »
Best,
Stan