Author Topic: New Workshop  (Read 11218 times)

Offline Robert Hornby

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New Workshop
« on: July 28, 2014, 12:18:57 PM »
We have pretty much sold our house (price agreed on, just awaiting for the buyer to sell their house) and have pretty much bought a new (to us at least) house with a small store room behind the garage. I intend to enlarge it to about double its present size to give me 12 square meters floor area. I will need to position the new window (non at the moment) and thought I would get some input from "experts" out there about that and my proposed layout.
As a consequence of relocating, my steam launch project will languish for a while.
Age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill

Offline b.lindsey

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Re: New Workshop
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2014, 01:24:59 PM »
Hi Robert,
Where you are showing the high shelving over by the mill/drill, if it is high enough you may want to consider putting a smaller workbench underneath it, if only to store various items you will use with the mill...like rotart table, clamps, collets, drill chuck, etc.  Just a thought.

Bill

Offline Jo

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Re: New Workshop
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2014, 01:32:03 PM »
A few observations:

1, Milling Machines: It is normal practise is to mount these in the corner at an angle to minimise the amount of wall space lost and to make maximum use of the corner.

2, Where do you intend on putting your bench vise? Natural light is wanted for an assembly bench but not necessary for a "grunt" bench.

3, Where are your power outlets?

4, Where were you thinking of keeping your work in progress? Temporary benches using a pair of the dirt cheap DIY workmates with a piece of timber on the top could be put up when needed and then put away when not.

5, You seem to have spread out to use all the available space rather than planned to make maximum use of a smaller area, leaving space for future expansion or temporary benches.

Jo
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Offline Jasonb

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Re: New Workshop
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2014, 01:41:25 PM »
If you have the space put the mill on a flat wall not in the corner as it will allow you to work on longer items if needed so maybe swap the drill and mill over, its easier to move the drill iff needed for a one off or just drill with the mill. Only put them in a corner if you are tight on space

Defiinately need more bench space, one as a working bench with your vice and another to sit at for marking out, assemble and fine work. Hanging for saws & files behind working bench, shallow shelves and small parts storage near other bench.

Plenty of draws and storage under the benches, I don't like a lot out on shelves as it collects cast iron dust and is black whenever you go to use it.

J

Offline Tennessee Whiskey

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Re: New Workshop
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2014, 01:52:52 PM »
I agree with both Jo and Bill. If you move the mill to the right and in the corner you could move the lathe around to that wall. That would free up that space for a bench with a vise and even another machine. As Jo stated, a grunt bench is going to have things going on that don't agree with glass, i.e. Sparks from a disc grinder, flying miss struck punches or chisels, or parts thrown in a moment if disgust (ask me how I know). I think these moves would allow you to add in some small benches to hold tooling as Bill suggested. That's my $.02US anyhoo.

Whiskey

Just saw Jason's post. If you're  just modeling I think the corner is fine, but, then again if there's any doubt about future projects, now is the time to think it over.

Offline Ramon

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Re: New Workshop
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2014, 02:02:03 PM »
Hi Robert - I agree with Jason here maximum access each side of the mill but if you swap the mill with the drill positions move that grinder as far away as possible - the 'fall out' from grinding will soon permeate your slideways  :ShakeHead:.

Bench wise - personally I favour an 'island' bench or at least one that you can access from both sides - mine (6ft x 2ft 6") runs out into the centre of the workshop from the bench the lathe sits on. Being able to switch sides of a project - especially a boat  ;) - is an absolute boon especially if something's too long or too heavy. You can't have 'too much' bench space  ;)

Take your time and get it right though it will never be finite - I'm still finding ways of 'improving' things after some thirty years in this one - mainly to create 'more space'  ;)


Regards - Ramon

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Offline Mosey

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Re: New Workshop
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2014, 02:43:05 PM »
I too think that the mill parallel with the wall is preferred because you can use the space on either side of the machine for storage cabinets for mill tooling etc., and the tops as staging space for your project, measuring tools, drills, center drills, parallels, indicators, clamps, wedges, drill chucks, collets, plans, etc. If the mill goes in the corner at an angle, the space behind it can become a catch all for swarf, junk, and just is wasted.
Mosey

Offline mklotz

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Re: New Workshop
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2014, 04:17:05 PM »
Some thoughts from my own shop design (mis)adventures...

Rolling tool cabinets provide the most design flexibility.  (Try as you may, you will never perfect the shop design on the first try.)  Building fixed storage and drawers is tedious and uses up play time ( (unless you like playing with brown stuff).  The smaller rolling cabinets can be rolled under benches to provide instant drawers.

Shop windows are wonderful but I wouldn't want one over my workbench.  Use that space for tools.  Windows allow thieves to inspect the goods before breaking in.  Provide for some form of curtains or shutters.  Also, there are rare times (e.g. heat treating) when you want the shop dark.

I agree with Ramon on an island workbench (wish I had space for one).  In my dream design there would be a 'slot' running down the middle of the bench beneath which was a box.  Tools could be stored in this slot-box while in use on the bench.  A 'slot cover' would close the slot when the full width of the bench was needed.  (It's a variant of a classic European woodworking bench design.)

Stand-while-working beefy workbenches are great but one needs must have a desk-height bench at which one can sit to do fine work, layout, etc..

Spend a lot of time deciding what the correct workbench height is for YOU.  We're not getting younger and, ultimately, your body will thank you.  Allow for the fact that you may, at some point, want to sit on a stool while working.
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Arbalest

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Re: New Workshop
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2014, 07:12:21 PM »
I've pretty much decided on this for my workshop if it helps. The shop should arrive some time September.

http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php?topic=3023.msg52811#msg52811

Offline Robert Hornby

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Re: New Workshop
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2014, 06:26:43 AM »
Wow lots of experts out there, thanks very much. My present workshop is quite large and spacious being 6 meters x 6 meters in a shed. (We are on a small acreage) The house we are buying has a brick store room 2.45 meters x 2.17 meters. The largest I can make it will be as per the drawing, this gives me 12 meters square, the minimum I think I can live with, a bit more would be good but it is not to be.
So to answer all you suggestions/comments I first thank Thor for enlightening me on the procedure to incorporate the topics.
Hi Robert,
Where you are showing the high shelving over by the mill/drill, if it is high enough you may want to consider putting a smaller workbench underneath it, if only to store various items you will use with the mill...like rotart table, clamps, collets, drill chuck, etc.  Just a thought.

Bill
yes Bill I will be adding a mill height table at the mill for tools and stuff
A few observations:

1, Milling Machines: It is normal practise is to mount these in the corner at an angle to minimise the amount of wall space lost and to make maximum use of the corner.

2, Where do you intend on putting your bench vise? Natural light is wanted for an assembly bench but not necessary for a "grunt" bench.

3, Where are your power outlets?

4, Where were you thinking of keeping your work in progress? Temporary benches using a pair of the dirt cheap DIY workmates with a piece of timber on the top could be put up when needed and then put away when not.

5, You seem to have spread out to use all the available space rather than planned to make maximum use of a smaller area, leaving space for future expansion or temporary benches.

Jo

Jo I hadn't thought about placing the mill at 45 deg. in a corner but will consider this. The bench vise is at the left, but this can be moved if required. There is no power in the store room at present but there will be put in an all 4 walls including good lighting. Regarding temporary and future benches/work in progress, I mostly stay with the one model until finished so there shouldn't be too much in the way of large bits of work in progress. Also just outside the entry of the shop in the garage is about 2 meters of spare space between the Cobra and the wall for more shelving and folding benches.
Jason
If you have the space put the mill on a flat wall not in the corner as it will allow you to work on longer items if needed so maybe swap the drill and mill over, its easier to move the drill if needed for a one off or just drill with the mill. Only put them in a corner if you are tight on space

Definitely need more bench space, one as a working bench with your vice and another to sit at for marking out, assemble and fine work. Hanging for saws & files behind working bench, shallow shelves and small parts storage near other bench.

Plenty of draws and storage under the benches, I don't like a lot out on shelves as it collects cast iron dust and is black whenever you go to use it.

J
I am thinking the mill might be better placed where I have shown the grinder/sharpener to give me more end space as you suggested. The one bench I have seems to suit my needs on its own without a second one save for a folding one occasionally. Under my bench resides the air compressor and stick welder.
I agree with both Jo and Bill. If you move the mill to the right and in the corner you could move the lathe around to that wall. That would free up that space for a bench with a vise and even another machine. As Jo stated, a grunt bench is going to have things going on that don't agree with glass, i.e. Sparks from a disc grinder, flying miss struck punches or chisels, or parts thrown in a moment if disgust (ask me how I know). I think these moves would allow you to add in some small benches to hold tooling as Bill suggested. That's my $.02US anyhoo.

Whiskey, the bench doubles as a 'grunt' bench and all other things, hand work assembly and such. The bench frame is 75mm square RHS 6mm thick walls. The top is 50mm (yes 50mm) thick timber (ex Roland 4 colour printing machine crate base) covered with lino. it works just well.
Ramon,
Hi Robert - I agree with Jason here maximum access each side of the mill but if you swap the mill with the drill positions move that grinder as far away as possible - the 'fall out' from grinding will soon permeate your slideways  :ShakeHead:.

Bench wise - personally I favour an 'island' bench or at least one that you can access from both sides - mine (6ft x 2ft 6") runs out into the centre of the workshop from the bench the lathe sits on. Being able to switch sides of a project - especially a boat  ;) - is an absolute boon especially if something's too long or too heavy. You can't have 'too much' bench space  ;)

Take your time and get it right though it will never be finite - I'm still finding ways of 'improving' things after some thirty years in this one - mainly to create 'more space'  ;)

Ramon, I take your point of an island bench and did try this arrangement in the shed a few years ago but reverted back to under a window for the natural light benefit and with a back to it things can be pushed there without falling off the edge. The bench was originally about 200mm longer and 300mm wider but i reduced it when I suspected I just would not have the room for such a large bench.
Mosley,
I too think that the mill parallel with the wall is preferred because you can use the space on either side of the machine for storage cabinets for mill tooling etc., and the tops as staging space for your project, measuring tools, drills, center drills, parallels, indicators, clamps, wedges, drill chucks, collets, plans, etc. If the mill goes in the corner at an angle, the space behind it can become a catch all for swarf, junk, and just is wasted.
Mosey
I am swinging towards having the mill square to a wall, just not sure which wall yet.
Mklotz
Some thoughts from my own shop design (mis)adventures...

Rolling tool cabinets provide the most design flexibility.  (Try as you may, you will never perfect the shop design on the first try.)  Building fixed storage and drawers is tedious and uses up play time ( (unless you like playing with brown stuff).  The smaller rolling cabinets can be rolled under benches to provide instant drawers.

Shop windows are wonderful but I wouldn't want one over my workbench.  Use that space for tools.  Windows allow thieves to inspect the goods before breaking in.  Provide for some form of curtains or shutters.  Also, there are rare times (e.g. heat treating) when you want the shop dark.

I agree with Ramon on an island workbench (wish I had space for one).  In my dream design there would be a 'slot' running down the middle of the bench beneath which was a box.  Tools could be stored in this slot-box while in use on the bench.  A 'slot cover' would close the slot when the full width of the bench was needed.  (It's a variant of a classic European woodworking bench design.)

Stand-while-working beefy workbenches are great but one needs must have a desk-height bench at which one can sit to do fine work, layout, etc..

Spend a lot of time deciding what the correct workbench height is for YOU.  We're not getting younger and, ultimately, your body will thank you.  Allow for the fact that you may, at some point, want to sit on a stool while working.
Security is not a problem for me as the house is in a walled /gated community and security is high and I do like the natural light over the bench

so thank you all again gentlemen and lady I do appreciate you feed back.
Robert
Age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill

Arbalest

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Re: New Workshop
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2014, 10:18:55 AM »
I thought about putting my mill in a corner but it would prevent me from working on the end of long material so it's going to go on the long side of my workshop. I also like natural light and planned to have two windows on the long side of my workshop 1000 x 700mm but the standard size for the cabin I've ordered is 1290 x 1000mm so they'll have to do. This was the view from the old workshop.



The windows in the new cabin are double glazed units but I'll be fitting some cheap blinds to help control the light/heat in summer.

Offline John Hill

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Re: New Workshop
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2014, 11:37:01 AM »
Hi Robert,  we moved house a few years ago and I had a new shop to move in to.  I choose an arrangement which I really like but I dont think I have seen anyone do quite the same.

My shop is about the same width as yours but a little longer.  I chose to not have any windows and instead put in skylights over the centre of the shop. 

I had a bench made, cast in concrete, which is in the middle of the shop and on it is my 12x36 lathe, a drill press,  small shaper, cold cut saw and my mill stands at the end.   The machines are on the bench with their backs to the back of the lathe which saves a lot of floor space as anything I need to do at the back of one I can do by reaching through from the other side of the bench.

There is one workbench with artificial light over it and a large tool board above it.  All the available wall space is taken up by cabinets etc

IMGP9398 by aardvark_akubra, on Flickr

IMGP9392 by aardvark_akubra, on Flickr

IMGP9397 by aardvark_akubra, on Flickr

Offline Robert Hornby

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Re: New Workshop
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2014, 12:30:56 AM »
I just love the view from your window Arbalest and as I have a similar window view now and enjoy it I feel that a window over the bench in the new shop will be enjoyed especially as it will have a similar outlook. It provides me with "time out" when when working through tricky problems or whoopies.
John, I hadn't considered a skylight but will give it some serious thought. I do like your layout but having tried it on the CAD it looks a little tight for space with my dimensions.
Most of the shelving is the office metal type which can easily be moved around should it not work right the first time. It is really only the lathe and drill mill that would be somewhat tricky to move due to the weight. With the lathe up against a wall shelving behind it can hold the lathe tooling etc.

Age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill

Offline John Hill

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Re: New Workshop
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2014, 11:02:19 AM »
Robert, I am a bit shy of shelves above my machines.  I know it might be handy to have things within reach but I have visions of stuff falling off the shelf and causing an accident when they drop onto a machine that is running.  I suppose there is only a very slight risk if the walls are brick or concrete and wont vibrate at all.  I also like to be able to access the back of the machines to change belts and make adjustments but most of all to run the broom/brush/vacuum through there once in a while.  There is a danger too in reaching over a machine that is running, which I am sure you would never do!

There is really not much space at all between my lathe and the cabinet which is behind me when standing at the lathe,  but I do have to be careful that all drawers are closed when doing something messy like sloshing coolant around or cutting cast iron!

The steel office furniture very good and I can really load the drawers without having things sagging etc.

John


Arbalest

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Re: New Workshop
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2014, 12:30:56 PM »
This has been mentioned before, storing anything behind rotating machinery is not a good idea.  ;)