Author Topic: Trying to fabricate electromagnet, requesting help please  (Read 14904 times)

Offline burnit0017

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Re: Trying to fabricate electromagnet, requesting help please
« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2014, 04:20:58 PM »
Hi, I am still thinking about it, why :slap:

Offline dieselpilot

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Re: Trying to fabricate electromagnet, requesting help please
« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2014, 04:27:08 AM »
For gravity to provide "free" energy, the  potential energy must come from outside the system. For example, a river with a damn and power plant uses gravity to generate electricity. The energy to lift the water upstream came from the sun which evaporated surface water to clouds which fell as rain or snow at higher elevation than the power plant. In the pump video you have to lift the pendulum, so you are adding that potential energy yourself. By eliminating the pendulum and using the same mass to create a flywheel the pump would be even easier to use. The amount of energy stored in the pendulum at that height is very small. The ease of pumping with the large crank comes, as I said before, from the working distance of the crank which is probably 30-60 times the distance the lever moves when he moves it directly by hand. Either the inventor doesn't see the mistake they've made or they are taking advantage of people who can't see it. It's that simple. Unfortunately, there is a lot of this, some unknowingly propose products like this, others intentionally and use gimmicks to sell them.

Offline burnit0017

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Re: Trying to fabricate electromagnet, requesting help please
« Reply #32 on: July 29, 2014, 09:44:23 AM »
Hi, interesting, I view it as a gravity assisted torque converter. To fabricate a flywheel with the same effect would just increase the cost. I do not work there so there is no problem here. I guess it all comes down to how you analyze the device. Thanks for your input.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2014, 12:35:02 PM by burnit0017 »

Offline dieselpilot

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Re: Trying to fabricate electromagnet, requesting help please
« Reply #33 on: July 29, 2014, 03:26:01 PM »
I guess it all comes down to how you analyze the device.

Which is why I asked about your analysis of efficiency for your device. If you're trying to generate electricity, adding a electromagnet (obviously with less than 100% efficiency) to the system only reduces the output.

IMHO, physics allows only one interpretation. There is a reason most of these "ground breaking" devices never make it. And, it's not gov't conspiracy. It takes a fair bit of understanding of physics, electricity, mechanics, etc. to realize why these devices are either gimmicks or don't work as advertised.

A pendulum is just an unbalanced flywheel. Pendulums have applications, but this isn't a good one. A flywheel or pendulum is an energy storage device. You have to put energy in to get it out. How much you get back out depends on losses. That pump doesn't even need a flywheel, because there really is no need to store any energy between pump strokes.

Greg

Offline burnit0017

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Re: Trying to fabricate electromagnet, requesting help please
« Reply #34 on: July 29, 2014, 04:19:47 PM »
Hi, Thanks for the info. Basically I am experimenting to determine if the combination of this flywheel with shifting weights and feedback from the electromagnet will be of any benefit. I am not trying to develope any ground braking device or brake the laws of physics. This is just a experiment for myself and I received a request to post my progress.  There is nothing to argue about, overunity is not possible. Thanks again for the input. Cheers.   



Offline dieselpilot

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Re: Trying to fabricate electromagnet, requesting help please
« Reply #35 on: July 29, 2014, 04:58:04 PM »
Of course, carry on.

Offline burnit0017

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Re: Trying to fabricate electromagnet, requesting help please
« Reply #36 on: August 01, 2014, 01:39:20 AM »
Thanks. Sadly the geometry of machine is not working well for the electromagnets. The electromagnet when mounted are stopping full rotation. But is not a wasted effort, I plan to install a steam cylinder and I use the PMA to charge some batteries. Thanks again for all the help. I hope to have something operating before it snows. Cheers

Offline PStechPaul

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Re: Trying to fabricate electromagnet, requesting help please
« Reply #37 on: August 01, 2014, 09:11:49 AM »
Interesting, but except as an educational experience, I'm afraid that it will not result in anything practical or beneficial. There is a thread on DIYelectricCar that seemed to involve something possibly similar, at least having an electromagnet:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/help-circuit-open-source-development-85070.html

I think the video on the water pump stated that it would pump 1000 gallons per hour, which seems like a lot, but that's less than 17 gallons a minute, and the pressure gauge was reading only 20 PSI, which does not require much force. If the water does not need to be lifted very high, this would be a rather small amount of power. The website gives more details:
http://gravityassistedpower.com/our%20products.htm

One clue is the 1 HP electric motor option. It is virtually impossible for even a superlatively strong human to provide 1 HP (it's even difficult for a horse), and not for any more than a few minutes. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower

The amount of power required to lift 17 gallons of water to a height of 15 feet in one minute is:

17 * 8 * 15 / 32572, or 0.063 HP

You can also imagine how much effort it would take to lift 68 1 gallon jugs of water from the ground to a four foot loading dock, in one minute. It would be an effort, but not too hard to do one per second.

The formula for a reciprocating pump is:

HP = GPM * PSI / 1550, so for 20 PSI and 17 GPM this comes to 0.22 HP.

So, I am not much impressed...  ::) :Lol:

Offline burnit0017

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Re: Trying to fabricate electromagnet, requesting help please
« Reply #38 on: August 01, 2014, 12:30:37 PM »
Hi, hypothetically speaking, a natural disaster hits and wipes out everything. What is your solution? :thinking:

Offline PStechPaul

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Re: Trying to fabricate electromagnet, requesting help please
« Reply #39 on: August 01, 2014, 11:32:09 PM »
It is unlikely for there to be a natural disaster that "wipes out everything", but it can (and has) happened on a local basis at an apparently increasing frequency and scale of damage, probably due to climate change. Mostly we have had to deal with failures of the infrastructure, electricity, natural gas, water lines, roads, and bridges, but in general these are conveniences we have become accustomed to having 24/7. Where I am, at least, there is plenty of water within a short walk, and there are ways to filter it or process it to make it safe. As I showed above, it is not necessary to have a "gravity assisted" pump to obtain water. The old fashioned hand operated well pumps are efficient enough and one person can easily pump enough water in a few minutes to provide for a family's daily needs.

As for the electricity, it is really just a modern convenience, and the Amish and many "primitive" societies do well enough without it. But there are many ways to make electricity, using free renewable resources such as solar, wind, and biomass.

The only thing that may be a difficult problem in the case of a widespread disaster is food. Those with knowledge can forage for food and use primitive but effective weapons or traps to obtain meat. Many people have their own (or communal) gardens where they can grow what they need, and various methods of storage outside the growing season. But unless there is a complete collapse of civilization (or extreme conditions such as warfare and genocide), eventually those who are not affected will be able to supply at least basic food (such as rice and beans) to those who have been wiped out.

So I question why you have asked your question, as it seems to be related to your "gravity assisted" devices. Tell us why they might be necessary.

Offline burnit0017

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Re: Trying to fabricate electromagnet, requesting help please
« Reply #40 on: August 02, 2014, 12:38:50 AM »
Hi, at my location wind is not always available. Solar is expensive and is not always available. At my location, steam power is a good option.
I am not trying to sell anything, I am just exploring gravity assisted power as another option. I agree with your observation, generating more than 1 HP is not as easy as I first thought. Thanks for your thoughts.   

Offline Ian S C

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Re: Trying to fabricate electromagnet, requesting help please
« Reply #41 on: August 02, 2014, 02:26:01 PM »
The nearest I'v had to a disaster was an earthquake September four years ago, the power was off for a few days at my place, and one of my hot air engines with a generator supplied power for a radio over that time, saving on batteries.      Ian S C

Offline burnit0017

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Re: Trying to fabricate electromagnet, requesting help please
« Reply #42 on: August 02, 2014, 03:03:10 PM »
Hi, are you using a MPPT circuit with the generator?


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjhrZ5DuggQ" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjhrZ5DuggQ</a>


I found this project with a Neo piston, it may be the solution I am searching for.

Offline PStechPaul

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Re: Trying to fabricate electromagnet, requesting help please
« Reply #43 on: August 02, 2014, 09:43:48 PM »
A Maximum Power Point Tracking (MPPT) circuit might be useful for such things as solar cells, but I think a generator might be most fully utilized by adjusting the speed of the prime mover. The linear piston generator in the video is similar to the "shake" type flashlights that were popular for a while. I bought a couple at a Chinese Cheap table at a flea market and they would be better described as "shake-and-fake". because they just had a few dozen turns of fine wire on a cylinder that contained a slug of steel (not even a magnet), and the circuit board didn't have any useful components. The LED was connected to a couple of coin cells and they provided the energy until they died. It seemed to get brighter when shaken, but probably because it vibrated the connections and briefly reduced the resistance.



This is basically a device that uses Faraday's Law where a magnetic field moving in relation to a conductor generates a voltage (and current if the circuit is closed). There seems to be a patent for this although the principles seem to be pretty obvious:
http://www.google.com/patents/US5818132

Here is some information about linear generators and application to a Stirling engine:
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1982iece.conf.1862S

You may like this article because it claims over-unity efficiency.
http://www.e-ijaet.org/media/0001/87I8-IJAET0805863-DESIGN-AND-DEVELOPMENT.pdf

Offline burnit0017

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Re: Trying to fabricate electromagnet, requesting help please
« Reply #44 on: August 02, 2014, 11:31:08 PM »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3dLzZZ5jKQ" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3dLzZZ5jKQ</a>


Hi, I found out the MPPT circuit for a solar panel will not work with a permanent magnet alternator. I took the core of the circuit which is a DC to DC step down converter and added a manually adjustable variable duty cycle. I found that by keeping the duty cycle below 50% it works really well with a PMA and removes the braking effect created from the back EMF.

Thank you for the additional information