Flathead V-8

[Tennessee Whiskey]

Great work as always George. You mentioned not having any way to check temps and I remember some temp indicating crayons we used back in my construction days. I dug way back in the old gray matter and remembered the name and here is their link (I think)http://www.tempil.com/tempilstik/. They worked great. We used them when we sweated couplings onto motors and pump shafts. I still have a few somewhere, I'll check the temps.

Eric A.K.A Cletus

[steamer]

Hi Dave,
All I know is what it says on the label. It contains Boron and to take precautions when using it. I did a search and found many applications but not a particular content.
gbritnell

Not  criticism at all George.    Boric acid has been used for many years as a anti scaling flux.   It's also used as a roach killer.   Apparently, if ingested by the roach, it causes severe dehydration and kills the roach.   We also use it as a hand cleaner....I'm sure you have used it in you time, Boraxo.   ( you know the 20 mule team stuff)

I remember using it as a soldering flux in shop class in school far to many years ago to mention

W.R. Smith uses Boric acid labeled as roach killer to coat tools with prior to heat treating to prevent scale.

My question is just a result of me being curious.      Your engine is beautiful bud!!!! keep it coming I love reading about it, I'm just not eloquent enough to form a compliment that would do it justice!!!

 

Dave

[petertha]

Hi Peter, As Durabar is a trade name I purchase a comparable product from this supplier.
http://www.speedymetals.com/c-8388-round.aspx

Ah, perfect! I noticed in post #281 you mentioned 'class 40' cast iron for the liners from the same supplier, so I thought there was some conscious intent to make the liners from that but the rings from another (Durabar) for some reason. But I think you are saying exact same stuff for both. If so, good to know. I bought the same material for my liner from Speedy because Durabar brand seems harder to source, at least in sizes I can consume.

[ogaryd]

Hi George,

[ogaryd]

Hi George,  Do you think a split Delron filler for the first ring groove may aid in installing the second compression ring?                                                       Gary                                                                                 

[gbritnell]

Hi Gary,
The next time I install rings I'll give it a try.
Thanks,
gbritnell

[gbritnell]

Gentlemen,
I figured it was time for an update on the engine. I only have two large parts left to complete, the radiator and the base along with some small pieces, carb parts, linkages, brackets etc.
The engine was started in August of last year and within a couple of months should see completion.
The piston rings were installed and the engine was run on the lathe for an hour to loosen things up. I filled the oil pan with a light oil while the engine was turning over and I pulled one of the plugs from the back of the block to check for oil flow, the pump works great. I did run into a problem with the oil rings but I'll report on that separately.
gbritnell
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu57yj7ZSqU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu57yj7ZSqU</a>

[Don1966]

George it's great to see an update on this master piece. I will be waiting for the rest of the updates and I do hope you show the construction of the radiator. This is just amazing and you my friend are a true craftsman and artist.........

Don

[fumopuc]

Hi George, great to see your Flathead V8 like it is at the moment. Thanks for the video, explanation and comments to the different components of the engine. Waiting for your oil ring story. I assume, that may be during the running in process at the lathe, the oil rings have removed to much oil from the liners, so it was necessary to feed the cylinders with oil from the top through the spark plug holes ?

[ogaryd]

George. I really enjoy reading your updates on the Flathead, every engine you build gets better!  I especially like your how to articles. I'm sure there are many people like me that refer to your previous post for information when building our engines,                                             Thanks Gary

[Art K]

George,
Every time I see what you do I am amazed. Like Don say's you are a craftsman and artist.
Art

[gbritnell]

Thank you everyone for the gracious comments.
Achim,
Here's the story on the oil rings. I'll give you some background information first.

The cylinder bores are .831 diameter. They were supposed to be .830 but when I started honing one cylinder got a little big so I had to finish them all at .831 The pistons are .8295. My compression rings are made to fit the cylinder bore and have an inside diameter of .740, giving a thickness of .0455. The width is .035.
The compression rings flexed enough to expand over the pistons and during the installation process only one of 16 was broken.

The oil rings have the same outside and inside dimensions. The width is .067 with a .035 center relief. This leaves .016 rings at the top and bottom. The depth of the .035 center relief is .020 leaving an internal thickness of .025. There are 14 .034 drilled holes for oil return.

At this point I have to say I have never made oil rings this small before and my dimensions were purely speculative. When trying to install them I broke the first 7 rings and each of them broke at the oil return hole. I don't know that changing any of the original dimensions will improve the flexibility of the rings so once I have the engine finished and running, whether it smokes or not, I will then experiment with another process.

What I have in mind is to machine the pistons at the oil ring location with 2 thin grooves, possibly .016-.018 wide. These will be spaced about .035 apart. Much similar to my original dimensions. The area between these two rings will be recessed about .010 and drilled with oil return holes. I will use the oil rings as scrapers and the area between will be for oil collection and return. Although the rings won't be totally supported for their entire thickness there should be enough to keep them from flexing up and down. There would be no way to prove this out but to run the engine and over time pull it apart to see if the grooves had become wallowed out. The pistons could also be made to have a greater wall thickness and the oil scrapers a little thicker to help support them.
Time will tell and I'll keep you posted on my experiment.
gbritnell

[Don1966]

George if I may say, why not make the oil rings out of different metal? I presume they were made with cast as the rest of the rings. Since they have no compression function and there sole purpose is to lubicate what would be the harm?

Regards Don

[gbritnell]

Hi Don,
I'm all for that except I can't think of any metal that would be springy enough to open up to install on the piston but then compress and hold it's set once in place. Full sized oil rings are very thin in section and have an expander between them. I also thought of making an expander from Teflon. It could be turned a couple of thousands under the bore size and drilled with oil return holes. It would be easy to fit on the piston and still hold the 2 rings apart. It's going to take some experimentation to sort this one out.
It just goes to show you the fine line between breaking and not breaking. The oil rings in my 302 are made the same way, from iron, but they are 1.00 in diameter. I did break two of them when installing but with these .830's I had no luck at all.
gbritnell

[jschoenly]

I say this in total ignorance, but would Ductile Iron work for them?  Just a thought.  I can't say I heard of it's use for rings before, but why not? 

Great Stuff!