Author Topic: Horizontal Milling Attachment  (Read 15000 times)

Offline cfellows

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Horizontal Milling Attachment
« on: April 24, 2014, 05:18:03 AM »
Waiting on parts before I can continue on my outstanding projects, so what do I do??? I ordered some more parts for yet another project!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321195442688?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

In their March 1995 issue, Home Shop Machinist featured a 2-part article by Frank McClean on building a horizontal milling attachment for his mill / drill.  Using bevel gears like those in the article would be pretty expensive, probably topping $60 or more if ordered from some place like Stock Drive Products.  However, there are a myriad of bevel gear sets available on Ebay in many different sizes and shapes as replacements for angle grinders and hammer drills.  So, if everything pans out, I'm going to give it a shot.  I doubt it will handle heavy duty milling, but it should drive slitting saws and involute gear cutters with no problem. 

Stay tuned...
Chuck
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Offline steamer

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2014, 10:39:50 AM »
Sounds right cool Chuck!

Dave
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Offline kev

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2014, 11:01:41 AM »
sounds a useful tool even just to drive a slitting saw

Offline tel

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2014, 11:18:16 AM »
I'm tuned! AND I have a couple of burnt out angle grinders to play with.
The older I get, the better I was.
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Offline ths

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2014, 11:53:31 AM »
Good brand angle grinder gears, properly hardened, would do the trick. Watching.

Hugh.


Offline Ian S C

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2014, 02:36:49 PM »
With El Cheapo angle grinders it's six one and half a dozen of the other which fails first, the armature, or the gears, some times it's both, I know because the bloke I do some work for buys 2 or 3 every year, at the end of the year we spend half a day trying to get enough good bits to get one going, more often than not the whole lot is rubbish, so it goes in the box under the bench.  His old one (probably 20yrs+) is still going strong.    Ian S C

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2014, 09:01:21 PM »
A drawing of the insides of one if these might be handy!

http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/info_VRANT30.html

Offline BillTodd

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2014, 10:24:41 PM »
yep. handy things those cheap bevel gears :)  i bought a couple to make tapping head (designed but not yet built)



bill

Offline cfellows

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2014, 05:10:06 AM »
With El Cheapo angle grinders it's six one and half a dozen of the other which fails first, the armature, or the gears, some times it's both, I know because the bloke I do some work for buys 2 or 3 every year, at the end of the year we spend half a day trying to get enough good bits to get one going, more often than not the whole lot is rubbish, so it goes in the box under the bench.  His old one (probably 20yrs+) is still going strong.    Ian S C

The gears I bought are for a hammer drill.  I'm hoping they'll be a little tougher than angle grinder gears...

Chuck
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Offline cfellows

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2014, 05:12:54 AM »
yep. handy things those cheap bevel gears :)  i bought a couple to make tapping head (designed but not yet built)

bill

Interesting, I hadn't thought of using 2 sets of gears.  That arrangement should lend itself to all kinds of possibilities... a differential, a continuously variable transmission, and, of course, a tapping head.

Chuck

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Offline Steamer5

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2014, 11:58:06 AM »
Hi Chuck,
 A bit late but for your next set go after an industrial quality grinder the gears / bearings & case are better quality. I've had a 4" angle grinder head hooked up to a 24v motor driving my Toby Tram for about 12 years now, no problem at all (the 1st mark 1 & 2 couples were another matter!) nothing unsual on a play day to do 10 to 15 km's over 6 hours. Oh the other great thing on the one I used is it had a 4 to 1 reduction which given that the motor is good for 5000 RPM....theres another 2 to 1 to the axels.

Cheers Kerrin
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Offline cfellows

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2014, 06:53:21 AM »
Still waiting on the gears to arrive.  I found this link to some pictures of the horizontal attachment another fellow made from the same plans.

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/60843-Horizontal-Milling-Attachment

Chuck
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Offline cfellows

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2014, 11:27:53 PM »
I decided to get started on the right angle attachment, even though I don't have the gears yet.  Today I worked on the clamping ring.



And here it is attached to the nose of the spindle housing...



I'm going to make the main body from 3" square steel tubing.  It will be welded to the clamping ring later.

Chuck
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Offline Don1966

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2014, 01:22:42 AM »

Offline cfellows

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2014, 02:40:45 AM »
Thanks for the link, Don.  That's a good price, but I'm expecting to get by for a lot less.  So far I've spent under $12, for the gears, and I think the only thing else I'll need to buy are bronze bushings for the spindle.

Chuck
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Offline cfellows

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2014, 08:55:08 PM »
My gears arrived today.  Pretty fast shipping from China, I bought them on April 23 which was only 10 days ago.  Tracking was pretty timely also.





The OD on the big gear is just under 2" and the ID is a little over 1.25".  I plan to make the attachment accept R8 collets and will use a piece of DOM tubing 1.5" OD by 1" ID for the spindle.  I'm going to first try using a flanged, plain cast iron bushing for the working side.  I didn't have a large enough piece of cast iron on hand so I checked with Speedy Metals for a 2" diameter, 12" long piece.  After choking on their price of $19 + $18 shipping, I searched around on the internet and found a 5 pound dumbell weight at Academy Sports for $3.99 + tax.  They have a store less than 5 miles away, so this morning I drove over and picked one up.



It's almost 6" diameter and 11/16" thick and already has a 1" hole in the center.  I'll use a 2 3/8" hole saw to cut out the center, then finish it up in the lathe.

Chuck
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Offline cfellows

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2014, 11:31:06 PM »
The cast iron weight turned out to be something other than cast iron.  My hole saw made it through the paint and that was it.  I thought it might just be hardened from the casting process, but after cutting more than .1" deep with a carbide end mill, it's still hard and shiny.   On to plan B, after I decide what plan B is...

Chuck
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Offline Dave Otto

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2014, 01:03:45 AM »
Hi Chuck

Go to McMaster Carr, MSC, ENCO, etc. and order a nice slice of class 40 cast iron, it will make your life much easier.

Dave

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2014, 08:19:59 AM »
Chuck

Try cooking the dumb bell in a fire, get it good a red and let it cool down slowly in the fire.

Stew
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Offline steamer

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2014, 12:58:23 PM »
YUP...probably chilled iron.   You could anneal it....or just get some G40 Durabar.....life is too short to cut hard dumbbell weights......just sayin.

Dave
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Offline RickBarnes

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2014, 05:16:21 PM »
Only a little related, but while cleaning an old garage out, I found 20 iron ingots from a old foundry. I have no idea of the alloy, or anything other than they are hard, heavy, sand cast, and a magnet sticks to them.  Would anybody have a use for these, assuming I could find out more about them?

Offline Lew Hartswick

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2014, 11:29:21 PM »
Only a little related, but while cleaning an old garage out, I found 20 iron ingots from a old foundry. I have no idea of the alloy, or anything other than they are hard, heavy, sand cast, and a magnet sticks to them.  Would anybody have a use for these, assuming I could find out more about them?
It'd be nice to know where in the world you are before we even think about size shape etc.
   ,,,lew,,,

Offline RickBarnes

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2014, 02:37:08 AM »
Sorry, trout my profile showed that.  Muskegon Michigan

Offline cfellows

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2014, 07:03:11 PM »
I've been noodling around with this for a few days.  I almost convinced myself to go with tapered roller bearings,  but a couple of days ago, while at the local Goodwill store, I found a couple of these for $3 apiece...



I don't think this attachment will get a lot of use and I mostly want to keep it simple, so I'm sticking with cast iron plain bearings for now.  I was able to easily cut a chunk out of the middle with a 2.5" hole saw.





The finished piece is 2.3" major diameter with a 1.625" shoulder on either side.  The ID is 1.275, same as the ID on the bevel gear.



I will bore a 1.625" hole through one side of the square tubing and secure the bearing to it with 4 bolts in a circular pattern though the flange.  The other side will have a smaller cast iron plain bearing, similar in shape but with 3/4" ID, and secured in the same manner.

Chuck
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Offline PJW

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2014, 08:59:31 PM »
Thats a cheep way to buy cast iron, looks like it machines up nice!
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Offline cfellows

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2014, 09:53:06 PM »
Thats a cheep way to buy cast iron, looks like it machines up nice!

Yeah, it had a little bit of a frothy void at one spot but nothing serious. 

So here's some more pictures.  I first used a 1.5" hole saw to cut an opening for the shoulder part of the bushing.



Then I used a boring bar to open the hole up to 1.625".  Here's the bushing sitting in the freshly bored hole.  I used a flycutter to flatten the area the bushing sits on.



And here I've drilled and tapped holes in the housing to secure the bushing with 10-32 button head screws.



Before I bore he bottom hole I'll start on the spindle.

Chuck

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Offline cfellows

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2014, 12:45:34 AM »
One last set of pictures for the day.  I started on the spindle using a 4" length of 1.5" x 1" DOM tubing.  This first picture shows the taper I turned for the R8 collet (hard to see... ).



And, with a collet inserted...



Here I've turned the spindle down to fit inside the cast iron bushing.



And inserted into the bushing...



Tomorrow I'll finish up the spindle and fit the bevel gear.

Chuck
« Last Edit: May 08, 2014, 12:51:08 AM by cfellows »
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Offline Don1966

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2014, 01:49:07 AM »
Cool Chuck! I am wanting to see how good it works. What is the game plan for alignment once you complete it? Following you progress here buddy.

 :popcorn:
Don

Offline Lew Hartswick

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2014, 02:53:05 AM »
That name "Weider" on the weight. Someone record that as it looks like the material is orders of magnitude
better than the ones that have been reported before. :-)
   ...lew...

Offline cfellows

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2014, 04:02:29 AM »
Cool Chuck! I am wanting to see how good it works. What is the game plan for alignment once you complete it? Following you progress here buddy.

 :popcorn:
Don

Thanks, Don.  I'm kind of trying not to think about alignment just yet.  My usual approach is to center everything as well as possible and hope for the best.   I will probably hold the pinion in a collet so the vertical position will be adjustable by how far into the collet it's inserted.  The big gear can be slid back and forth and held in place by a couple of grub screws contacting flats on the spindle. 

Setting the angle of the axis when in use is another problem I'll have to grapple with....

Chuck

That name "Weider" on the weight. Someone record that as it looks like the material is orders of magnitude
better than the ones that have been reported before. :-)
   ...lew...

Yeah, I got lucky, that's pretty good quality iron.  The store had 2 of them and I bought them both for $2.99 each.  Keep your eye out at consignment stores, Goodwill, Salvation Army, and other stores that sell donated items.  I frequently see weights for sale pretty cheap at these stores.  Garage sales and flea markets may be another good source.

Chuck

Chuck
« Last Edit: May 08, 2014, 04:07:35 AM by cfellows »
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Offline cfellows

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2014, 09:08:32 PM »
Here's some more pictures of today's work. I cut the 3" square tubing body to length, then mounted it in my 4 jaw chuck in the lathe and squared up the top end.  I also turned down a 1/8" long shoulder on the end to fit inside the clamping ring to which it will be welded.  This will make sure the square tubing is centered and square in clamping ring.





And here's the ring fitted over the top of the square tubing body.  I haven't welded in place yet.





And clamped to the spindle nose of the mill / drill...



And here's a video of a test run...

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQlybFXMUWE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQlybFXMUWE</a>

Bear in mind, I haven't yet welded the square body to the clamping ring nor have I completed the outboard end of the horizontal spindle.  That's all coming up next.

Chuck
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Offline cfellows

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2014, 06:22:39 AM »
Well, it's finished...







And ready to go to work...







The welding is a little gnarly, but it's functional.  Its first project will be a 10 degree helical gear for the sideshaft on my Bessemer conversion to 4 stroke.

Chuck

Chuck

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Online sco

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2014, 07:05:43 AM »
Chuck,

That looks business-like!  Are you sure that clamping ring will have enough grip to cope with the  cutting loads without slipping?

Simon.
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Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2014, 12:52:37 PM »
Very nice work Chuck. Your gnarly welding looks a lot like mine. As I get older and older, and my glasses get stronger and stronger, I can see the weld puddle less and less.----Brian

Offline Don1966

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #34 on: May 10, 2014, 02:48:35 PM »
Looks good from here Chuck, just don't forget to take a video of it in action.

Don

Offline steamer

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2014, 06:12:05 PM »
Hey Chuck,

Do yourself a favor and put a couple of drip oilers in, or conversely, a vertical feed pipe with a bit of felt wicking.  Either way will feed a little oil all the time to the bearings, and they will last a lot longer and run a lot cooler with a little oil all the time.   

Looks good man...Can't wait to see it in action. :ThumbsUp:

Dave
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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2014, 06:19:57 PM »
Looks good. Is there a reason for the extra hole(s) in the box tube Chuck?

Offline cfellows

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #37 on: May 11, 2014, 04:30:42 AM »
Chuck,

That looks business-like!  Are you sure that clamping ring will have enough grip to cope with the  cutting loads without slipping?

Simon.

Yeah, that clamping ring is solid.  I think the gears would strip before that clamping ring lets go.   One thing I did notice is that the unit puts a lot of torque on the spindle housing when it's working.  I have to make sure to tighten the downfeed clamp when using it.

Looks good from here Chuck, just don't forget to take a video of it in action.

Don

Thanks, Don.  I've got the unit all set up to cut a 10 degree helical gear tomorrow.  I'll take a video and post it.

Hey Chuck,

Do yourself a favor and put a couple of drip oilers in, or conversely, a vertical feed pipe with a bit of felt wicking.  Either way will feed a little oil all the time to the bearings, and they will last a lot longer and run a lot cooler with a little oil all the time.   

Looks good man...Can't wait to see it in action. :ThumbsUp:

Dave

Thanks, Dave.  I've drilled holes from the top of both bearings to the spindle that I can top up with gear oil.

Looks good. Is there a reason for the extra hole(s) in the box tube Chuck?

Thanks... the extra holes in the side are so I can squirt some oil on the gears regularly.  Also helps with making sure the gears are properly engaged when I set it up.

Chuck
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Offline cfellows

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #38 on: May 11, 2014, 09:26:24 PM »
Here's the video.  I'm using my newly finished, right angle milling attachment to cut a 10 degree, 12 tooth helical gear.  The gear blank is mounted on the 4th axis which controls the indexing and also the rotational movement needed in concert with the X-axis movement to accomplish the cutting.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L18a_wfaRBE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L18a_wfaRBE</a>

The initial centering of the cutter on the gear blank, and the angle of the involute cutter are pretty critical.  If you get them off even slightly, the valleys between the teeth will be too thick and the gear tooth too thin.

Here are some pictures of the gear I just cut (the small one) and an 80 degree, 6 tooth gear I had made earlier using my manual helical gear cutter attachment on my lathe.  The large gear will be mounted on the crankshaft and the smaller gear on the side shaft for my conversion of the Bessemer to 4 stroke operation.  I know it seems counter intuitive that the larger gear will spin twice as fast as the smaller gear, but that's how helical gears work.











I'm quite please with the right angle attachment.  I think it will see a fair amount of use.

Chuck
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Offline NickG

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #39 on: May 11, 2014, 09:37:10 PM »
Awesome stuff there Chuck, really clever.

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #40 on: May 11, 2014, 10:07:04 PM »
Very cool Chuck.
You seem very pleased as you should be.

What kind of cutter is that? I'd like to look it up.
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Offline cfellows

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #41 on: May 11, 2014, 10:23:18 PM »
Very cool Chuck.
You seem very pleased as you should be.

What kind of cutter is that? I'd like to look it up.

Thanks, Zee.  It's a #8, 32 pitch involute gear cutter.  You have to use a special graph to determine which numbered cutter to use when cutting helical gears.
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Offline Tennessee Whiskey

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #42 on: May 11, 2014, 11:42:52 PM »
Another great job Chuck. It's men like you that can take a common sense approach to engineering and yield a practical result, that made this country great one upon a time.  :cheers:

Whiskey

Offline Don1966

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #43 on: May 12, 2014, 12:05:42 AM »
Awesome job Chuck, you are the man bud. Thanks for taking us along. I like................ :praise2:

Don

Offline steamer

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #44 on: May 12, 2014, 02:12:35 AM »
Well done Chuck!

Dave
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Offline ttrikalin

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #45 on: May 12, 2014, 02:22:56 AM »
impressive stuff.
hats off, good Sir

t
take care,

tom in MA

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #46 on: May 12, 2014, 02:34:05 AM »
Great to see all the toys working so well, very impressive.

Cheers, Hugh.

Offline gbritnell

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #47 on: May 12, 2014, 05:07:44 AM »
Excellent work on a great project Chuck. I don't know how many times I've needed a horizontal setup and this would be just the ticket.
To reinforce what you said about the gear sizes. When I built my 302 many years ago I never payed much attention that the cam gear is almost twice as large as the distributor gear but yet they run at the same speed. With helicals it's not the diameter but the tooth count. Same number of teeth same rpm, twice as many teeth, half the rpm.
Thanks,
gbritnell
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Offline cfellows

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #48 on: May 12, 2014, 03:56:25 PM »
Thanks, Whiskey.  I was raised in a small town in the Midwest, very poor and had to entertain myself with whatever was available, cheap.  These days I could probably afford to buy things like the right angle attachment and 4th axis, but most of the fun is in figuring out how they work and making my own.  Half the fun is in the journey, as they say!

Thanks Don, Dave, T, Hugh, I always appreciate and enjoy the comments.

Thanks, George.  I had started looking at different helical angled gears because the gearing that drives valve trains usually has a small gear on the crankshaft and a big gear on the cam to get the 2:1 ratio.  However, the crankshaft is usually the larger of the two and mechanically it makes more sense to have the larger gear on the crankshaft.  Now, finding someone who sells helical gears is hard enough, but finding anything other than 45 degree helical gears is near impossible.  That's really what's driven me to figure out how to make my own.  Luckily for me,  enjoy the process.

Chuck
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Offline hitnmiss49

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #49 on: May 12, 2014, 04:29:54 PM »
Chuck,

The Crankshaft and Distributor Pinion Gears make great Helical Gears for a model engine. The Pinion gear is very hard so it needs to be heated red hot and cooled slowly to soften it for machining. I have used them on several model sideshaft engines and they work very well.

Lonnie

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #50 on: May 12, 2014, 04:32:11 PM »
 Chuck,

Forgot to state the Gears in my previous post are VW gears.

Lonnie

Offline Coopertje

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Re: Horizontal Milling Attachment
« Reply #51 on: May 12, 2014, 10:12:25 PM »
Cool chuck, works very well! Thanks for sharing

Jeroen

 

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