Author Topic: SOTHERN  (Read 17043 times)

Offline peatoluser

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SOTHERN
« on: April 06, 2014, 10:42:06 PM »
As someone with possibly more projects on the go than what is good for me, I thought perhaps I'd better post one of them.
Especially as I've been neglecting Newnes to concentrate on this one.
Of all the types of steam engines, it's the marine engine that holds the most fascination for me.
I think it's the sheer variety of types as engineers tried to solve the problems of space, high centres of gravity, size to power ratio, economy etc..that appeals to me.
Sothern will be a compound diagonal paddle engine.
it's based on a drawing in 'Sotherns verbal notes And sketches for marine engineers' - hence the name!. I've always wanted to build this engine but the drawing in the book is quite small.
Fortunately, www.archive.org have digitalised it https://archive.org/stream/verbalnotessketc00sothrich#page/2/mode/2up and by clicking on the enlarge button I can get a better understanding of the drawing.
the other reason is that in the Liverpool maritime museum there is an exquisite model of this type of engine that I often go and .. well... drool over!
so at least I have a real 3D model to go and compere the diagrams too.
As for drawings, well, I just enlarged the diagram until the frame filled the window, held a sheet of paper over the screen and traced the outline.
I'm not one to let the lack of detailed drawings get in the way of hacking at metal!
And so to the hacking.
First up are the frames. the two outside frames I made from 5mm plate while the inner is from 6mm.
for me , with no milling machine, it's a case of hacksaw and file.
 
the webs are 2mm thick strips. they were arkward to hold in place so I tack-welded them, then soldered them and used my trusty proxxon to grind out the welds.
the real problem was to get the holes for the bearings , flat surface for the crosshead rails and feet all in line with each other.
to do this, I made a crude jig to hold each frame. I first drilled the holes , as best I could, for the main bearings in each frame, and a corresponding hole to take a peg in the plate. cheeks were drilled and soldered either side of the holes in the frames. then, on one frame, I tacked the plate for the guide rails in place, then fitted the frame onto the jig.
I then held a block against this and welded it to the jig plate. this way , if I slid another frame over the peg and clamped a plate against the block and tacked it to the frame, I stood a good chance of getting the crosshead plate in the same relative position on the other two frames.
I also set up a similar block for the feet. Although I used a long bar , tacked it to both legs, then after soldering, cut out the middle section.
here's the jig in use

after the three frames were done it was time to see how close they were to each other.
some of the webs aren't exactly square
 
and the legs aren't all the same distance apart - well I am a sort of 'near enough is good enough' muddling model engineer!

and I must have been quite careless in clamping the bar for the feet on one of the frames

BUT, the plates for the rails came out quit good. the middle one is slightly forward of the two outer ones but all three are at the same angle which I think is probably more critical than a wonky foot, which I corrected by buiding up with weld and filing down.

with a 15mm bar through the bearing holes, there was very little fettling of the feet to get all three frames sitting flat with no rocking of any one of them.
thanks for looking

peter

Offline stevehuckss396

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2014, 11:09:20 PM »
That's some pretty deluxe fabrication work there. Nice!
Do not be like the cat who wanted a fish but was afraid to get his paws wet.

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2014, 11:29:46 PM »
Another keeper thread.

That's a fascinating engine.
Well worth :popcornsmall:

(Thanks Jo for the emoticon. I suspect it will get well used.)
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Online Kim

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2014, 02:02:36 AM »
That's some very nice looking frames Peter. Totally agree with Steve - that's some nice fabrication work there!  :ThumbsUp:

I'm looking forward to seeing your build progress. Thanks for sharing it with us!
Kim

Offline Jo

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2014, 07:25:27 AM »
Nice piece of fabrication Peter  :ThumbsUp: I have a few very interesting fabrications to make in my future  :embarassed:

It will be interesting to watch this one develop  :popcorn:

Jo
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Zee: Pleased you found it, as with all good things we now have two to choose from  ;)

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Online Roger B

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2014, 07:39:11 AM »
That's some very clever fabrication work  :praise2:  :praise2:
Best regards

Roger

Offline peatoluser

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2014, 12:12:57 PM »
before I start on the main bearings , I thought I'd better make sure I could make the crosshead & rails. I didn't want to fabricate the rails, as they are not painted, and I didn't want any solder showing.
so it was another case of hacksaw and file.
when I have to file a few components all the same size, I prefer to make a fixture to hold them and use guide rails to file down to. it saves all that tedious bending down checking if your close to the line etc.
you can see from the photo that the bar is left over length and holes are drilled in the end to allow it to be bolted to a sub plate held in the vice.
in front of it is the filing guide. it's set so that when I get down to it, it will leave me about .010" to go. (I'm sketching this up in metric but I can't get out of the habit of referring to small cuts/ clearances in imperial!)
it's then I start using the mike and holding the part the conventional way in the vice
 
I got all the faces within a couple of thou' of the nominal size and it's then it kinda' went pear-shaped
I need to turn the round portion, so I need to centre the ends.
I marked them up, centre popped them and then centre drilled the ends. Made a square carrier for them and started to turn them between centres.

but I think a combination of sloppy marking out and a drill with a lot of play in the spindle meant the centre holes were out.
It was this job that inspired me to splash the dosh on a bigger better drill
It looks like that the square parts are out, but they're not . it's the round bits that aren't on the same axis as the ends and square body.
I'll have to take a close up to show you what I mean. But there's no way I'm going thru' all that filing again. I shall just have to learn to luv em!
The ends were then hacksawed off and filed flat. A simple plate square was made to check that everything remained in line , but I'm sure I'll have more fettling to do on assembly.

here's a finished bar next to a part filed one

thanks for looking

peter

Offline b.lindsey

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2014, 12:17:04 PM »
As others have already noted Peter, some very nice fabrication work on what should be a wonderful model marine engine. I too will look forward to seeing your progress on this one!!

Bill

Offline Ramon Wilson

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2014, 12:47:15 PM »
As ever Peter your ingenuity and indeed, 'enginuity' never fails to impress. Your ability to produce such parts with minimal kit is always inspirational to me. Nice fabrication on those frames  :ThumbsUp:

Looking forward to more  ;)

Regards - Ramon
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(a very apt phrase - thanks to a well meaning MEM friend)

Offline Bearcar1

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2014, 02:41:23 PM »
I really enjoy watching fabrication work being done. Thanks Peter. SOOO! much work but it does build character and makes one truly appreciate the machines we have, well, most of them that is  :Lol:  Keep up the spirit and please, don't stop with the pictures  :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:


BC1
Jim

Offline tvoght

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2014, 04:26:22 PM »
I'll join the chorus of appreciation for this fundamental fabrication work.

I also share your fascination for marine steam engines, Peter.

--Tim

Offline peatoluser

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2014, 06:59:07 PM »
Thank you all for the kind comments. Jim , I don't know about character building , but when things went wrong with turning the round parts of the rail it sure was, shall we say, vocabulary building!
here's what i mean, although I think the camera was focused on the plugs in the background
 
whether I remake it or not I shall leave for the future.

the crosshead was next
again it was filed from bar, much like the rails, but at least they are a lot shorter, plus there's only two of them.
you can also see I've eased the corners to reduce all those interrupted cuts when I turn the little end journals.

I made another carrier (or is it called a lathe dog?) to help in turning the journals

the slots in the end where milled by clamping the crosshead to the cross slide with suitable packing.
I find it more rigid than using a vertical slide , but I still need to use small cutters - a full width cutter would cause too much chatter, plus I can sneak up on the width by adding more packing under the crosshead. sorry I forgot to take photos of this , but I did remember  to photo when cutting the detail grooves.

I had to make sure the packing was right first time for these - the cutter being only 3mm dia.
once the centre ones where all cut , it was straight forward to adjust the packing to cut the two outer grooves on each face.
For the slipper bearing that fits in the cross head - i felt this would be easier to make as a fabrication as the sides are quite thin, only 3mm
so I filed some 3mm brass to size and clamped 3 pieces round some 10mm square bar and soldered them together.
I simply filed away the corners of the bar to stop soldering everything together.
here you can see how I milled the grooves in the sides. A square bar is clamped to the cross slide and the slipper is clamped to this with some packing underneath to allow a slot to be cut approximately in the middle of the face. the lip is measured and the packing filed down to give the correct lip on the top edge. it's then a simple matter of flipping it over to do the other edge. I also tend to leave faces a couple of thou over size so I can tickle them with a file for final fitting


and here is the crosshead nestling between two rails

I think I have got the worst of the fabrication over, and I'm generally pleased with the parts, so I will persevere with this engine

thanks for looking

peter

Offline Johnb

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2014, 10:53:50 PM »
Smashing Peter. Many thanks.
John Browning. Member of Ickenham and District SME

Offline peatoluser

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2014, 08:16:47 PM »
Time for the main bearings. they are split, but because they're not symmetrical - the top part is squarish, the bottom, half round - rather than follow the usual method of soldering two parts together , boring out and then heating up to split , I decided to make each half as a full bearing then hacksaw and file to give me the half bearing.
the half round was straight forward. Drilled and reamed in the drill some scrap bronze, then mounted it on one of Ramon's split mandrels
 
and turned it round

When you cut it in half , how to measure that you've got exactly half  bearing?
quite straightforward, mike it on a piece of flat bar of known thickness. and if you've got one of them all singing and dancing digital mikes, you don't even have to do any maths

the square part was done in a similar fashion, and I finally found a use for that ball anvil that fits on the mike.
measure the ball, make a note of the size, zero mike and measure the bearing thickness

zero reading and then close the mike to give a minus reading of the ball, then zero this.
then you can measure half the bore . I'm much happier sneaking up on some sizes with a file than milling on the lathe.

in truth I intend to take it down to just below 6mm, then lap it in using timesaver lapping powder.
the locating grooves saw a brief outing of the vertical slide - I much prefer milling on the cross slide. much more rigid


the gap in the bearing was hacksawed and filed


next I drilled/tapped the holes in the frame. awkward to mark out and hold .  :zap:


the first set didn't go that well, so I wised up and made some simple drilling plates


then it was a case of assembling and checking if a 12mm ground bar would be horizontal. I can get a 0.015" feeler between pointer and bar on one end when  it just touches the other end, so some fettling and possibly shimming to do , before i fit and check the guide bars.


thanks for looking

peter

Offline Jo

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2014, 08:26:20 PM »
Its already got lots of character  :Love:

Jo
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Offline peatoluser

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2014, 05:02:08 PM »
After a fair bit of filling I finally got to the stage where the difference in height of the two ends was no more than a couple of thou'.
So, satisfied with the bearings, it was time to check how the guide bars lined up.
from the top, well , it's rather self evident what needs to be done

and from the side , you can just see that the bars aren't all at the same height, but the angle of incline is almost the same for all of them.

the first thing to do was to make a crude square out of some 1.5mm plate, select the best guide/frame assembly then file the guide so that it's square to the bearing axis.

then it's a case of fettling the other 3 until everthing seems to line up


I think next up are the conrods , big and little end bearings

thanks for looking

peter

Offline arnoldb

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2014, 07:13:52 PM »
Great going Peter

It's always inspiring to see how much and how well you do things with limited tooling  :praise2:

Kind regards, Arnold
Building an engine takes Patience, Planning, Preparation and Machining.
Procrastination is nearly the same, but it precludes machining.
Thus, an engine will only be built once the procrastination stops and the machining begins!

Offline peatoluser

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2014, 09:25:10 PM »
Thanks for the compliment Arnold , although if you could see my work up close I wouldn't say its well done!

on with the big & little ends
for the big end I followed the usual road of squaring up  2 pieces of bronze and soldering them together.
I marked the centre for the bore , centre popped it, then centred in the four-jaw.
after drilling and boring I then transfered it to a split Ramon mandrel and turned the outer lip.




rather than file the outer edges round, I decided to drill the ends, hacksaw and file back, then solder in pre-drilled ferrules with a base - so much neater than filing


for the little ends I tried a different tack.
I made a fixture for the face plate to help in boring out this type of bearing, but it can be a pain trying to get the bearing spot on the lathe centre line , especially if the bearing has been machined to it's finished width - you then have to bore it out spot on centre.
so , I soldered some scrap pieces of bronze that where the right thickness, but over length, together

I then set up the faceplate fixture to the right height.
I have pieces of tube turned down to various thicknesses to give the required offset. the 6.0mm refers to how much the fixture is below lathe centre height.
the important point to bear in mind is not how accurate the 6mm offset is , but that once the plate is fixed in position , all bearings fitted to it will be bored out at the same height in relation to thier base - so long as you remember to mark the lower half so you know which way they went onto the fixture!

it's then a case of drilling and boring to size




once that's done , well I'm becoming a big fan of Ramons mandrels



I then filed the outside edges down to the right size in relation to the bore. measuring much like I measured for the main bearings.
To drill for the clamp bolt holes, rather than scribe a centre line, I turned up a small bush whose diameter is the same as the thickness of the bearings.
I then used a small marking punch to centre pop the hole positions. I have a number of these, all turned down to various diameters that correspond to BA diameters.
Ideal for spotting thru' pre drilled components.


then it's a case of drilling them

heating up to split the two halves and soldering on a base. For small components, I find a small 'lazy bird' is better than trying to clamp them together.

and here is a cleaned up big end next to a small end just soldered

now for the con rods themselves

thanks for looking

peter

Offline Jo

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2014, 08:47:20 AM »
Those are looking nice Peter, I like the curves on the outside of the centre section.

 :thinking: I like that Lazy bird, I might steal the idea  ;).

Jo
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Offline peatoluser

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2014, 04:35:24 PM »
Yes, I think the big ends turned out quite well
here's another photo. you can see the brass ferruls reasonably OK.
the dimple mark on the bearing surface was caused by too much clamp pressure trying to hold everything together. Hence the cobbling together of the lazy bird


yours

peter

Offline Johnb

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2014, 08:44:00 PM »
I like that. Thanks for the new ideas to be filed away.
John Browning. Member of Ickenham and District SME

Offline Don1966

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2014, 12:20:07 AM »
Just caught up reading the latest fabrication work and I must say you do some very impressive work Peter. I will be tuning in on the rest of this built, so pulling up a chair. 

:popcornsmall:

Don

Offline peatoluser

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2014, 03:29:20 PM »
Finally finished the con rods.
I could have altered my drawing slightly so I could use 20mm square. It would be easier to keep the ends aligned making from square bar, but
it would mean a lot of interrupted cuts before it starts turning round, and its also difficult to get in free cutting grades.
with a good bit of filing to do - and the free cutting stuff does make this easier - i opted to use 30mm round instead.
first job is to turn the middle part down to 8mm. having roughly centre drilled the end in the drilling machine

remembering to scim the two large bosses left so everything is concentric

next is to cross drill for the pump operating spigot. I need this hole to be parallel to the crank axis, therefor I need a flat edge on one of the ends to set it up for drilling in the lathe.So I filed the big end part square, then realised I should have filed the little end square first, as it would make lining up easier. Still, both ends have to be  squared up, so no set back. I just had to file one edge flat and parallel to the big end part .I used two pieces of square bar and sighted by eye to help in the filing.

then it was a question of setting up on the cross slide with a small square, and drilling the hole

Then it was a case of filing the end to a square block, drilling and hacking out the middle bit,

then out with the files and emery and tart up the ends

although having seen rivergypsy's beautifully finished crosshead, I think I need to buy me some No 2 & No 4 cut needle files - as well as some finer grades of emery!

thanks for looking
peter

Online Kim

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2014, 03:52:57 PM »
Nice job on the con rods!

Wow, Peter, that was a lot of steel to remove on a little lathe!  I know they can do it, I've done it before.  You just have to go slow and steady and take LOTS of small passes.  You have my respect!

Kim

Online steamer

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2014, 09:27:44 PM »
Peter!

I have a new name for this engine when it's done!........"Determination"


Respect!,

Dave
"Mister M'Andrew, don't you think steam spoils romance at sea?"
Damned ijjit!

Offline Don1966

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2014, 11:33:03 PM »
Wow! You sure pushed the limit of that lathe. Very impressive Peter and you are very persistence. I like............. :praise2:


 :popcorn:
Don

Offline fumopuc

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2014, 05:07:33 AM »
Hi Peter, nice job. It is impressive what you are able to do with this small lathe.
Kind Regards
Achim

Offline ths

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2014, 11:12:07 AM »
I love the handwork Peter, just like cabinet makers winding sticks.

Hugh.

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2014, 01:09:43 AM »
Nice stuff Peter.

I'd like to know more about the 'lazy bird'. How's it made? What kind of adjustments there are?
Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you'.
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Offline peatoluser

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2014, 02:46:48 PM »
Zee, it's quite crudely made . just some pieces of 8mm bar welded together, the beak bit being a piece of 2.5mm welding rod with the flux knocked off.
although there's no adjustment , it's best used with the head part vertical, so I just bend the welding rod to suit or sometimes just weld a different length on.
It can be so much easier to set up and see the joint than with using clamps.
to give a bit more grip, I have a small bar with a blind hole I can pop on the end.
I first saw one of these being used over 30 years ago by a welder to hold parts together while he tacked them up - although his was considerably bigger!- asked him what it was and he called it a lazy bird . well, that's what was left after you took out all the expletives.
hope this photo shows it a bit clearer.


peter

Offline Ian S C

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #30 on: May 21, 2014, 03:16:32 PM »
If you get stuck with a bit of square that needs to be round, you can knock the corners off with the angle grinder, with a small lathe you need all the help you can get.  Even the bench grinder is a great help.                                                                                           Like your lazy bird, a bit better than my bit of 1 1/4" x 5/16" steel(maybe wrought iron) fence post (Warattah is it's Kiwi name--the fence post), with an old rusty 1/4" x 3" bolt through it where the bit of welding wire is on the bird.       Ian S C

Offline peatoluser

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2015, 10:39:02 PM »
well , after a break from the shed for various reasons, it's good to be back in the saddle. can't believe it's been so long since I last posted.
I've now got the big and little end bearings fitted to the conrod , but not without the usual, erm, wrong turns?
fitting the big end was fairly straight forward. the only thing to watch out for was making sure the bore was perpendicular to the rod.
using a vee block and a bent scriber in the surface gauge helped me check this. filing the base of the bearing with a needle file soon brought everything into line.

the little ends were more problematic. I needed them square and parallel to the big end as well the right distance apart.
 the other problem was hoe to clamp it to the drill table.
I eventually came up with this set up

it worked well for one rod, but I was really just relying on lining the bearings up by eye.
after fitting studs and bolting the bearing blocks on, when I placed rods through the little and big ends, it was clear that although they where parallel they weren't in the same plane.
the studs (7BA) would need moving. So I drilled the holes out to 4BA and screwed in some bolts

these were filed flush, but I still needed to come up with a way to correctly re-drill them
I very crudely made a clamp to bolt to the conrod

then I was able to bolt the little ends to the rod, and by lying them on to pieces of flat bar, I could adjust everything so both bars rested on the edges of the parallels.

It was then a case of transferring to the drill, spotting thru' with the clearance size drill - just enough to put a dimple on the rod - then drilling through with tapping size (the dimple just stops the drill from wandering)



hopefully I can now concentrate on the crankshaft

thanks for looking

peter

Offline b.lindsey

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2015, 10:47:04 PM »
Hi Peter, nice to see you back in the saddle on this nice project...I hadn't realized how long it had been.

Bill

Offline peatoluser

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2015, 02:15:54 PM »
I hadn't realised how long it had been as well!
finally finished the crankshaft. The crank webs have to be different thicknesses - at least at the shaft end - for  the connecting rods to line up centrally between the guide bars.
my drawings showed that one would have to be 10.5mm thick while the other would be 9.0mm.
not wanting to face of pieces of 12.0mm flat bar, I decided to use 10.0mm bar instead ,and if need to use some 0.5mm shim to make up the difference.
to make the webs I tack welded 2 pieces of 10.0mm bar together and drilled and reamed two 12.0mm holes. the rest was a case of marking out the profile, then hacksawing & filing the profiles.
 I made them in two sets as it was easier to drill and ream. no doubt there is a slight difference in hole spacings, as I only use a ruler and scribe to mark out, but as they are hand filed to profile it's unlikely I'll mix them up.
to bring to the 9.0mm thickness, I used my shop made face plate.

the outboard peg is a loose fit in the hole, it's just there to stop the job from slipping. it was a case of reversing it to clean up the 9.0mm cranks. for the 10.5mm cranks I just faced down till it blended with the bottom radius.
thats one of them in the photo, hence the red marker. note the attempt at counter balancing weights.
the crank was then assembled with loctite . first just the crank pins in each pair, then after marking the shaft , the whole lot.
you can see how I set them at 90* here

then hacksaw out the surplus parts. clean up and there is the crankshaft. I intend to pin the cranks as well but will leave this until after everything is assembled and I know they are in the right place. Note the ...erm... 'tangential oil groove' in one of the big end journals caused by the hacksaw when I cut through the shaft. I wised up for the other cuts, fitted the blade between the two bars and cut outwards so that when the blade  broke through, it broke through  into thin air


thanks for looking

peter

Offline peatoluser

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2015, 08:02:46 PM »
next up are the eccentric sheave and straps. as the straps have an internal groove , I decided to make these first (as others have stated , it will be easier to machine the sheave to suit the strap than the other way round)

I followed the time honoured route of soft soldering 2 pieces of brass together , then boring out to 28mm dia.
you'll note that I've cut off one of the corners



this is to help in measuring the depth of the groove. to do this I use one of those gadgets you can get to fit on the anvil of a mike.

I measure the distance between step and bore and zero reading


then as I cut the groove, I could check the depth rather just rely on the cross slide dial readings


once satisfied, the rest was just a case of filling buttons and files, although I did make a little filing jig so I could 'thin' the top part of the rod end.


I find it can be difficult to mark out for drilling small parts, so often make little drilling guides and glue them in place.


and here is the finished article


although I might still drill out the bottom halves and use bolts instead of studs

thanks for looking

peter

Offline tvoght

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2015, 08:11:18 PM »
I will always check in here to see the Peatol (Taig) being put through its paces. Excellent work on the eccentric straps, Peter.

--Tim

Offline ths

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2015, 02:06:54 PM »
I really dig the groove! And the rest as well, nice going. Cheers, Hugh.

Offline mike mott

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2015, 06:05:58 PM »
Peter, I am amazed at what you are able to achieve with your small lathe, and your silver soldering skills are also right up there.

mike
If you can imagine it you can build it

Offline peatoluser

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #38 on: April 22, 2015, 10:30:40 PM »
Time for the sheaves. To help in making these, I used a faceplate jig I had already made. It's a piece of angle welded to a moveable slide. It's so constructed that when the slide is inline with the outer diameter, a piece of 1" dia. bar runs concentric with the lathe axis. As the sheaves where to be 30mm O.D. I had to offset the slide to get a piece of 1 1/4" bar to run concentric.perhaps the photo shows it better. Here I've turned the O.D. for the third sheave . you can see the slide is offset.

It was then a case of moving the slide the required amount (easily measured with a vernier) to bore the hole

I had only cut enough material to make three plus chucking piece. The overhang would have been too much for the peatol to do all four - I had to hacksaw them off as it was , with an offset hole trying to part off would have been too difficult.
To make number four I would have had to cut more bar and end up with two scrap chucking pieces. As I hate waste,I wondered if I could use the chucking piece as I had already bored the 12mm hole right through when I made number three.
so I made another slide to fit the body, (It's designed to use 1 1/2" X 5/16" flat bar as a slide) drilled and tapped it 6mm and fitted a piece of stud.



I screwed onto this a piece of scrap bar (already drilled 6mm) and turned it down to 12mm,
drilled the chucking piece to take a 5mm grub screw and fitted it to the spigot.

It was then a simple case of offsetting as before to turn the O.D.
 
This got me thinking, I wonder if this would be a better way to make them than using the vee slide?
I could use a vee block and drill / ream the holes in the drill press, then hacksaw off 4 pieces.
there would be less offset rotating mass with the added bonus of being nearer to the headstock bearings. Always a good thing on a small lathe.
although I think one of Ramons expanding mandrels would have been better than using a grub screw.

thanks for looking

peter

Online Roger B

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2015, 07:25:04 AM »
Nicely done  :praise2: I do like your faceplate jig  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:
Best regards

Roger

Offline gbritnell

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2015, 01:07:49 PM »
I admire the work being done on such a small machine. The crankshaft came out great.
gbritnell
Talent unshared is talent wasted.

Offline peatoluser

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #41 on: June 24, 2015, 10:08:30 AM »
finally finished the four eccentric rods. can't believe I made the first back in april, although have been busy making a few fixtures & other bits etc.
here's how I made them from 20 x 10 rectangular bar

I used a combination of chain drilling and angle grinder to thin out the middle, then set up between centres to turn it down





wish you could get free machining steel in rectangular sizes. you can't half tell the difference on a peatol

once that was done, the rest was a case of hacksawing and filing. Making some of 'elmer vices' - well, that's what I call them after first seeing them in one of Elmer Verburgs articles on the web - sure helps a lot.



this one...
 

...came in handy for filing the feet at a slight angle .The inner two rods are 'bent over' slightly to line up with the expansion link.

the forked end was bent by gripping it in the vice and giving it a tweak using a small ring spanner

to drill the holes in the end I soft solder some drill guides to the base (used to use glue , but they would break off too easily)

and then use a spotting punch to mark out the corresponding hole in the eccentric straps



I find it easier than trying to mark out and centre punch small parts

and here are the four straps


next are the two expansion links. More filing but hopefully I will get them done quicker than the rods!

thanks for looking

peter

Offline peatoluser

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #42 on: July 15, 2015, 11:22:23 AM »
finally finished the two expansion links. no photos of manufacture as, for me anyway, a case of chain drilling and filing.
the blocks run O.K.  in the slots. Filed  them a tight fit, then used fine grinding paste to lap them in. Slow but got a good fit in the end.(for me anyway!) Only I messed up drilling one of the holes .It ain't perpendicular to the sides. So in two minds as to whether :-
a) re-make die block, or
b) drill out to 5mm and plug and re-drill 3mm hole.

made both from gauge plate. Intend to harden one of them but undecided as to which would be best to harden , link or die block or possibly both?

If you look at the ends of the links you'll see the end hole is bushed. Didn't mean to. It should have been 3mm not 4mm like the other two...
which is a bit  embarrassing as I'm the one producing the drawings!


Offline b.lindsey

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #43 on: July 15, 2015, 10:31:36 PM »
Nice to see an update Peter. Sorry about the non-perpendicular holes though. Seems to me it would make sense to harden the hardest part to replace (links) if not both theoretically but given the small amount of time most of us run these models though you may be fine not hardening either. How is that for fence sitting :)

Bill

Offline Don1966

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #44 on: July 16, 2015, 01:08:52 AM »
Nice work Peter those links look great to me. I know you put a lot of time in making time.............. :ThumbsUp:


 :drinking-41:

Don

Offline peatoluser

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #45 on: July 16, 2015, 08:40:08 AM »
Bill, I guess your right so shall go for option 4 and leave them unhardened.

Don, appreciate the complement, although after all that filing I'm now looking for a simple turning to do!

thanks for looking in

peter

Offline Stuart

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #46 on: July 16, 2015, 12:33:15 PM »
Peter

There is no need to harden the Stevenson launch links , even on a well used loco they will not wear.

There is very little block slip if the valve gear is correct , the only movement is when you move the gear to reverse or notch up


Best to make the die block of a softer material as if there is wear ( remote) it's the easiest bit to replace

Stuart
My aim is for a accurate part with a good finish

Offline peatoluser

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #47 on: July 17, 2015, 03:15:37 PM »
Thanks for the input Stuart, I shall leave them green.
ended up drilling the 'wonky' hole out , re-bushing and taking a lot more care in re-drilling 3mm.

for the valve rods I want to try and have them run in a square bush as in  full size practice.
making a square rod would be straight forward , but a 4mm square hole , another proposition altogether.
so I had a go at making the valve rod guides.
1st part was the bush. 7mm O.D. brass. drilled it out 3.9mm and started filing with some needle files.
I have a couple of cheap sets bought from various outlets , and this gave me two sizes in the square variety, one of which measured 3.8mm .
So I opened it out with the smaller file and then when I was getting near to size (nominal 4mm) , I basically used a hammer to tap the larger file through and in effect broach out the square hole.
it looked alright so decided to go with square valve rods.
the rest of the guide block is straight forward but fiddly. especially to solder
because its a compound engine, the guide for the HP cylinder needs to be longer.


next up are the valve rods themselves

thanks for looking

peter

Offline peatoluser

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #48 on: August 04, 2015, 09:42:55 AM »
well, I didn't make the valve rods next. As I had no stainless steel of the right size , I carried on with some more small fabricating in the shape of the weighshaft brackets.
there are three of these and are a straight forward soldering job much like the valve spindle guides



I hadn't left much room on the caps for the nuts to seat, so had to mill 2 little pockets either side for them. took more time to set up than actually do


although I have made a small clamping fixture for my bench drill, I don't like using it much for small drills as there's too much slop in the quill, and anyway, the top speed is only 2500RPM.
So I treated myself to a nice little proxxon TBM 220 drill. Small, accurate and can whizz up to 8500RPM.


note the quick and dirty vice. Part is held by a pair of wedges. With small drills (this is 9BA tapping) I very rarely clamp unless the part is too small to hold in my fat fingers! This vice gives me something to grab hold of while the part is held quit secure by the wedges.

here are the three pedestals. the studs are 9BA but the nuts are 10BA hex. but I do need to remake one of the split bearings. The hole is
not concentric to the outer.


thanks for looking

peter

Online Roger B

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #49 on: August 04, 2015, 12:16:57 PM »
Good progress  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:

I have a Proxxon TBM220 together with the cross table (KT70) which is very good for coordinate drilling of small parts. I also added a fine feed to be able to do some milling.
Best regards

Roger

Offline peatoluser

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #50 on: August 09, 2015, 10:50:37 PM »
yes, Roger, they're a cracking little drill. Really pleased with it. The only down side I find is that if a drill is just a little too big to fit in a collet,
it can be difficult to close the next size up collet to clamp it. Wouldn't be without it though.

With the valve spindle , I realised that the only part that needs to be stainless is the part that goes into the valve chest, so decided to make it in two parts. the main part in BMS and the spindle from 3mm stainless threaded to screw into the forked end.
this way it a) saves me buying stainless bar , and
                b)means I haven't got a long section of bar to turn down to 3mm dia.

the forked end was a simple filing job. I drilled a 12mm hole in some square bar, drilled and tapped for a grub screw.
It was then a simple case of clamping a bar in the holder and filing away. By rotating the block in the vice I could pretty well keep the four faces square to each other. It was the usual case of making filing buttons to round the ends. I should point out that I drilled and tapped the end of the 12mm bar before filing everything else!
heres the filing block and a finished fork end


but the next one will be made by different techniques ......



because I now have a new toy!!!...






thanks for looking

peter

Online Roger B

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #51 on: August 10, 2015, 07:27:38 AM »
There is a 6mm chuck available for the TBM 220 which is fine for normal drilling.

Have fun with the new toy  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp: Is it the fixed (rather than tilting) column type?
Best regards

Roger

Offline peatoluser

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #52 on: August 10, 2015, 10:58:05 AM »
thanks for the tip about the chuck. I shall have to hunt one down.
the mill is a fixed column model sold by arceurotrade here in the UK.
I figure rigidity is the important thing with a mill. For any angular milling or drilling (such as steam ports etc.) I purchased a tilting table and one of those digital angle measuring devices . At least this way I don't have to worry about having to tram the column vertical!

peter

Offline Bluechip

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #53 on: August 10, 2015, 11:14:56 AM »
I have the same TBM drill. The chuck is here:

http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?WD=chuck%20proxxon&PN=copy_of_copy_of_Table_Top_Tools___Accessories%2ehtml#a28122

Code SME1000 will get you 5% off IIRC

( Unless you get chucked out on your 'earole. In which case it doesn't.)

Dave

Offline peatoluser

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #54 on: August 10, 2015, 11:26:41 AM »
Thanks for the link Roger. I will have to get one ordered.

yours

peter

Online Roger B

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #55 on: August 10, 2015, 11:49:16 AM »
This is the fine feed I made for my TBM. I now have a milling attachment for my lathe, but the modified TBM is still good for small pieces.

http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,2088.0.html

Best regards

Roger

Offline peatoluser

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #56 on: November 24, 2015, 05:54:22 PM »
frustratingly not much shop time over the past couple of months, but I have been able to make some progress.
I have  managed to build the condenser.
the main body is a piece of 2" brass tube. I filed the ends square - figured it was quicker than trying to do it in the lathe and didn't quite trust my milling skills to do it on the new toy. But i did mill the grooves for the feet

and turned up the pipe and flanges for the steam inlet and outlet. these were then soldered onto the body one assembly at a time.
the ruler is just my way of checking by eye that things are reasonably square.
the proxxon came in handy for enlarging the pipe holes.
the outer covers where made from two discs of brass bar. To get the curve I made a couple of form tools from gauge plate.
the outer curve was pretty straight forward to produce on the peatol

but the inner i had problems with chatter and stalling but got there in the end

not the skinny off cut. I'm not turning a potential useful piece of breast into swarf if I can help it!
the two covers where then soldered onto pieces of 1/16" brass and the flanges turned and , on the rear cover , the middle trepanned out.

the front cover was more involved. this is ,on the inside , split in two. so i had to solder a bridging piece in first before I soldered the flange on.
I thought I had taken photos of this , but must have forgot.
the rear cover also has an inspection hole on it . this was quite straight forward to mill out now I've got me new toy. before it would have probably meant drilling and filing to shape because of the curved surface.

the two end flanges where straight forward turning and then drilling the water tube holes.
I soft soldered these onto the body.
then came the job of soldering in the tubes , and here I made a mistake. I saw some brass tube of the correct diameter (4mm) at one of the exhibitions but never gave any thought to the I.D. so bought enough more on a whim than anything. probably thought I'd be saving on postage. Anyway after I soldered them in I really noticed how small the bore is


I don't think it's going to be doing much condensing like that, so I've ordered a long series drill to at least open them out a bit.say to 3mm.
silver soldering I can do , but soft soldering is another matter as you can see. It also had to have the front face flat , and not trusting being able to clamp it securely on the mill, I resorted to spending some time using burrs in the proxxon and emery on a piece of glass to bring the face true.

and here is the complete condenser. Water enters the bottom pipe, flows down the lower set of pipes , and back through the top set and out via the top pipe while steam from the L.P. cylinder enters the larger upper pipe on the body and condensate is drawn by the air pump via the bottom pipe. well that's the theory anyway! at least it looks the part.

 and yes it was a pain cutting down to size 60 off 10BA bolts...tho' not nearly as much a  nuisance as finding out you hadn't made the flange deep enough for standard washers , so had to to turn down 120 of them...

thanks for looking

peter

Online Roger B

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #57 on: November 24, 2015, 06:34:37 PM »
Glad to see you're back on this  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp: How do you find your rotary table? It looks very similar to mine, which I had to tidy up a bit.

http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,5444.0.html
Best regards

Roger

Offline peatoluser

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Re: SOTHERN
« Reply #58 on: November 24, 2015, 07:25:22 PM »
It probably is the same Chinese made type although mine turns O.K. but like yours does have some play. fine for milling but I think it might prove problematic for drilling PCDs. Having read your post I think it might prove beneficial to strip mine down . thanks for the link.

peter

 

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