Do-it-yourself warranties or " Your new South Bend is screwed"

[sshire]

I agree. Grease isn't the problem. If it is then it's not the only one. The poor guys who paid either $3265.00 or $1965.00 for a lathe (albeit a very accurate lathe) without a quick change gearbox, no power cross feed, threading range from 10-32 tpi and a 4-way tool post deserve better from Grizzly than "here's the parts. Good luck" The responses I've gotten from them seem to say that they're OK with fixing the problem. I would have had that under-300 pound puppy in the trunk and driven to Muncy in a flash.

BTW here's the lube spec for the headstock

Headstock Fluid Type........................................................... ISO 32 (eg. Grizzly T23963, Mobil DTE Light)

[Stuart]

If you look up the bearings in question on the manufactures web site SKF. FAG or why

You will find two speed ratings one for oil and one for grease

Now as you know I have replaced the AC bearings in my lathe this led me to do a lot of web research .

Now the ones fitted were 7007 series's  from memory ( May not be accurate) grease was approx 15000 rpm and oil was 30000 rpm

It would seem its a function of how the bearing can push the lubbrication out of the way without overheating

Now I would assume that the OEM fitting would not have been a high precision set let alone matched pair
And the speed low good clean grease would have been fine

I would go with a bad ,unclean assembly at the birth of the lathe
Also how many are out there in the wild with grease in that are working satisfactorily with the owners quite unaware that it has grease in the bearings

BTW I run mine on oil even with its top end of only 3000 rpm as the lathe calls for nuto32 in all the zerks and that what the oil gun is filled with keep it simple one gun all the zerks no mistakes

Stuart

[steamer]

I agree. Grease isn't the problem. If it is then it's not the only one. The poor guys who paid either $3265.00 or $1965.00 for a lathe (albeit a very accurate lathe) without a quick change gearbox, no power cross feed, threading range from 10-32 tpi and a 4-way tool post deserve better from Grizzly than "here's the parts. Good luck" The responses I've gotten from them seem to say that they're OK with fixing the problem. I would have had that under-300 pound puppy in the trunk and driven to Muncy in a flash.

BTW here's the lube spec for the headstock

Headstock Fluid Type........................................................... ISO 32 (eg. Grizzly T23963, Mobil DTE Light)

Is that in the manual?   if it is, then our friends at Grizzly got "some splainin to do"!  How did the grease get in there in the first place?

[steamer]

If you look up the bearings in question on the manufactures web site SKF. FAG or why

You will find two speed ratings one for oil and one for grease

Now as you know I have replaced the AC bearings in my lathe this led me to do a lot of web research .

Now the ones fitted were 7007 series's  from memory ( May not be accurate) grease was approx 15000 rpm and oil was 30000 rpm

It would seem its a function of how the bearing can push the lubbrication out of the way without overheating

Now I would assume that the OEM fitting would not have been a high precision set let alone matched pair
And the speed low good clean grease would have been fine

I would go with a bad ,unclean assembly at the birth of the lathe
Also how many are out there in the wild with grease in that are working satisfactorily with the owners quite unaware that it has grease in the bearings

BTW I run mine on oil even with its top end of only 3000 rpm as the lathe calls for nuto32 in all the zerks and that what the oil gun is filled with keep it simple one gun all the zerks no mistakes

Stuart

It's all about managing the heat generated, and the heat dissipated.   Grease is cheap and cheerful, and pretty simple to implement, but it generates more viscous shear, and therefore more heat.    Oil doesn't want to hang around, so it's implementation is more complicated and expensive, but it doesn't generate as much viscous shear and therefore less heat.   It also carries the heat away more efficiently.    Those aspects result in the speed range differences you see.

But we're only talking like 3000 rpm here.  It's not that fast at all!
As a data point, by 70 year old Atlas had Timken taper roller bearings in it, and worked just fine with whatever oil I put in it.

Dave

[steamer]

And Yes all of Bobs comments apply here....was it over filled, did they use the wrong grease...what quality grease did they use?....was it contaminated?

None of this is rocket science.....makes me mad.   It would seem a simple thing to get right in the first place.

Dave

[Mosey]

Sorry to repeat myself, but this is a question for Grizzly to answer, as the manufacturer and vendor,  "What is the problem, and what are you going to do about it?"
Mosey

[sshire]

Mosey
They did contact Grizzly and explained the problem. Grizzly's answer was "no problem. Well ship you the parts in 3 or 4 weeks and you can install them"
To me that is unacceptable for a "SB"

[Mosey]

I couldn't agree more. It's time to get tough, I think, and tell them to pay for the fix. I don't know the details of the warranttee, but perhaps it's time to consult one of those guys in the dark blue pinstripe suits?
Are these new machines, failing under short term use?
Mosey

[sshire]

Mosey
The HMEM link is in the first post of this thread. They go into the whole story there.

[PStechPaul]

Servicing large, heavy equipment is (obviously) a problem for manufacturers. The companies I have worked for make test sets which weigh as much as 1500 pounds, but they have casters and are designed for some portability. When there are problems, or even when they just need PM or calibration, in most cases it is much cheaper to send a technician on-site to do the work. But these are typically $5000-$40,000 machines, and it is reasonable to spend 10% or 20% of the cost for service. The units are generally priced with 30% or more profit so that a service call still does not result in a net loss. It costs roughly $500-$1000 to ship such a unit each way, while sending a technician may be half that. But there is the risk that the repair might require special parts or extensive work which cannot be done in the field, in which case the unit must be returned to the factory anyway. And there is also the risk of damage during shipment.
 
It seems that there should be (or could be) local technicians who could be hired by the manufacturer to perform service on machine tools. A warranty repair should include the cost of labor to perform the work, and I think it should be an option for the owner of the tool to be paid for the time spent, as long as s/he has the skills and experience to do the job properly. Thus, it might take four hours at $50/hr for the repair, which is much cheaper than the other options.

[zeeprogrammer]

Of course part of the answer is to get it right the first time.
Quality control.
Some may still get out...Murphy plagues anyone and everyone...but you can afford better service if you have fewer problems.

[Tin Falcon]

I would not be too hard on grizzly. I agree it is a pain to self install parts but most of us that own machine tools have the skills.
Without getting into detail I do service work . Often things sent in for warranty are dismissed  as customer abuse item dropped water in unit etc. and service companies are given a flat labor rate for replacing parts.  These rates are based Ideal conditions. And notice I said replace parts there are little allowances for troubleshooting. Sometimes it is difficult to find what part(s) failed . I have seen where all suspect parts were overnight shipped. then I find a rodent chewed wire fix the problem with no parts and then the parts need to be purchased or returned . the warranty does not cover the shipping in this case. Only if a part is used. And in other cases multiple parts are needed and installed.
So called lifetime warranties are often pro rated . So Grizzly is not the only company to have warranty limits and conditions. And issues are not limited to machine tools. 
I do agree though something sold as a premium product and sold at a premium price should be backed by the manufacture and the company the sold it . for a reasonable amount of time a year at least. And full in store replacement only works if you are less than an hour from the store and the item is still stocked if yours breaks.

From what I understand someone demanded that the company that made the Liberty bell (White Chapel bell foundry) replace the bell on the grounds the original product was defective. They agree to repair or replacement as long as the unit was returned to the factory in its original packaging.

Hmm
Tin

[Mosey]

I believe that in the German auto industry, nothing is repaired in the US. Everything is removed as a unit and replaced, while the problem unit is shipped back to Germany for repair and appropriate execution of the offending original assembler.
Mosey

[fcheslop]

Sorry modified this post as it may have been deemed offensive. I sincerely apologise if that was the case.
Personally take it back and dump it on the counter and request a refund in full.
If enough people did so they would soon get there act together it makes my blood boil the way its now acceptable to have poor after sales service.
I also work in the service sector and to be blunt if I had the same attitude my customers would have my balls and I would be very quickly out of work

[smfr]

Possibly naive question: is the new "South Bend" stuff made in China?

Simon