Brown Paper Gaskets

[Kim]

I'm getting close to finishing up my current engine build (Marine Twin Cylinder Build (Steamech)http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,1584.0.html) and was considering adding the oil soaked brown paper gaskets I've seen other people use.  But I have a couple of questions:

Does this make a difference in the performance of the engine?  Do you leak less air?

Is it enough difference to make it worth doing?

Any particular kind of brown paper you would recommend?  Brown grocery bag?

And what kind of oil do you soak your brown paper in?  Standard 10-40 motor oil? Way oil (seems so thick)? Light oil, like 3-in-1 or something like that?

As always, thanks for the help!
Kim

[fcheslop]

Manilla envelopes work well.
cheers

[Pedro]

When I was in San Diego, the store gave free gasket material with any alcohol purchased. Perhaps the authorities have a negative stereotype of mechanics?
Grease is useful with complex gaskets to stick them in position.

[Brian Rupnow]

It depends on how good a machinist you are. The smoother the finish on your mating parts, the thinner gasket you can get away with. It does make a huge difference in the performance of the engine. I generally use cardboard cereal box to make gaskets, unless its the head gasket on an i.c. engine.--Perhaps that makes a statement about my machining abilities.--------

[Kim]

Interesting...

fcheslop, do you soak your manila envelope with anything? Or do you use it dry?

Pedro, Brian, the cardboard gasket material seems thicker than I was picturing.   There are a couple of place on my engine where I don't think I could handle that additional thickness.  But maybe I need it!

Do either of you use oil on your cardboard?  (beyond the grease to get it to stay in place )

Thanks for the tips!
Kim

[John S]

Get someone with a laser to cut the gaskets for you, do a stack and you are set for life, the quality is awesome.



The hole in the middle is 1mm, the hole on the stalk is 1/2mm as is the annular groove. 14 seconds to cut this.

[fcheslop]

Hi, just a drop of oil .What ever is to hand straight 30 or cycle oil
cheers

[Kim]

Thanks for the additional info fcheslop.

John, that's a pretty impressive gasket!  Not sure I'm quite up to that standard yet, but that looks beautiful! 

Kim

[John S]

That's the beauty of a laser, if you can draw it, you can cut it.

[fumopuc]

Hi Kim, seeing the discusion about gaskets, I will take the opportunity to show which system I have in use. May be it is  worth to think about it. In your country is a company based, selling low cost cut plotters.
http://www.silhouetteamerica.com/select-a-silhouette
My one is the 'portait'. In the included software you can import any  dxf file and cut your gasket. 10 pieces in one go, if necessary. My gasket paper is from a car/bike part shop down the road, between 0,15 and 0,35 mm.

[Jo]

I used that free brown gasket paper provided by Amazon in their parcels as packing. Iron it out perfect 

John love the gasket but, other than your good self, not many of us have a laser cutter at home to cut our gaskets out with or could afford to get someone to laser cut them for us

Jo

[Brian Rupnow]

Since I design everything with 3D cad, I just print off the mating surface of the part at 1:1 scale, stick it to my cardboard with a gluestick, then cut it out with small scissors, and exacto knife, and a host of small "core punches" that I have made up on my lathe. I don't use oil. I either use grease or Permatex gasket compound on both sides of the cardboard.---Brian

[Don1966]

Kim if you plan to run your engine regularly and on steam use gaskets. If you plan run them on air and to put them on the shelf with other engine and run them now and then don't use gaskets at all. My engines have no gaskets on them and leak very little and has no effect on them running. They have been placed in Doll cases to keep them from tarnishing quickly. I have had two of them in cases for over a year and have not tarnished yet and they are all brass. I do run them now and again for my grandsons.

Just my 2cents

Don

[Jim Nic]

I'm with Don on this.  I have only used gaskets on my Stuart 10V and that was because they were provided in the kit.  My other engines (only 2 but both twin cylinder) both run without gaskets although I have used a smear of non-setting silicone gasket compound on jointing faces.  Gasket goo is a LOT less time and patience consuming than paper!     Having said that, I run my engines on air only so if you are going to be using steam this opinion may be invalid.
Jim

[John S]

I used that free brown gasket paper provided by Amazon in their parcels as packing. Iron it out perfect 

John love the gasket but, other than your good self, not many of us have a laser cutter at home to cut our gaskets out with or could afford to get someone to laser cut them for us

Jo

Jo laser I can understand but what's an iron ?

[b.lindsey]

Guessing she means one of these John, though I would expect a more modern version

[b.lindsey]

But then again google did turn up the following image as well. Sorry Jo, couldn't pass this up...

[bp]

A long time ago on a design course, the lecturer said words to the effect "The only reason you use a gasket is to reduce costs.  Using a gasket means that you cannot or will not afford to finish the joint by machining or hand work"
Obviously he trying to make us think, but what do others think?
cheers
Bill

[John S]

Bill.
There is not doubting that statement if everything is equal but design also rears it's head.
Take a typical 1950's 60's primary chain cover on the average motorcycle, a nice pleasing shape, two arcs joined by two tangential
lines.

One central nut and washer holding the front to the back. There is no way that this design will seal without a gasket an 17 pounds of gorilla snot, I don't care how much finishing you throw at it.

Had a pump in the other day oblong flange plate with a bolt at 3 corners, because of the design and shape of the inlet housing the other corner could not have a bolt.

So it's not always the guy on the end of the spanners.

[Maryak]

A long time ago on a design course, the lecturer said words to the effect "The only reason you use a gasket is to reduce costs.  Using a gasket means that you cannot or will not afford to finish the joint by machining or hand work"
Obviously he trying to make us think, but what do others think?
cheers
Bill

IMHO it depends to a large extent the medium you are trying to seal off and the damage which can be done to the joint faces should it start to leak.

e.g. It's much easier, (and safer), to replace a spiral wound gasket than to try and reface a flange cut by HP superheated steam.

Best Regards
Bob

[Mosey]

I've had a few machines over the years, some leaked regardless of gasketing, some didn't. When I rebuilt my 50 year old  Ducati bevel-drive motorcycle it had no gaskets between the pressure-cast cases, and never leaked, anything, ever. Things were made with precision, utilizing high quality materials and methods.
Mosey

[bp]

JS and Maryak
I agree with what you say absolutely.  I think what the lecturer was trying to say was to think about what you are doing, especially with primary chaincases!  I once had the great pleasure of owning, at different times, a 1957 Triumph T100, and a 1964 Norton 650SS both of which required a gasket (in the case of the Norton a huge great big specially moulded monster) they both required care, attention, gorilla snot and a little magic to make them seal!
Mind you Hylomar works wonders as well!
cheers
Bill

[IanR]

A standard go-faster mod, which I haven't tried -no point on a Panther- is to throw away the head gasket of your single cylinder motorcycle and lap the head and barrel joint.

[John S]

Might work on a panther Ian instead of the 17 sheets of roofing felt they fit as standard