Author Topic: SS Xantho John Penn trunk engine  (Read 16977 times)

Offline Pedro

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Re: SS Xantho John Penn trunk engine
« Reply #60 on: February 01, 2014, 02:33:24 AM »
I've had a very pleasant reply from Mack McCarthy who is the project leader at the museum. Unfortunately, while they intend to publish plans, there are none available at present. I've asked if they could take a few basic measurements and am waiting for a reply. While the photos are good enough to make a start, I'd be much happier with a few hard numbers.
 
I'd like to offer my deepest thanks for the interest and help that I have received so far, and shall keep you all posted.

Ps Pat, of course I'll cooperate. Sorry I didn't mention it before.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2014, 02:39:43 AM by Pedro »

PatJ

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Re: SS Xantho John Penn trunk engine
« Reply #61 on: February 01, 2014, 03:35:46 AM »
Pedro-

I have a long list of engine projects going, so no big deal if you can or cannot come up with some significant information.

I would not overlook the fact that you should be able to get very close to the original geometry of the engine just by looking at the photos.

I have designed several engines just from a few photographs.
It is just a matter of maintaining the proper proportions, and laying out the geometry to allow for free travel of the moving parts.

Studying the old engravings helps a lot too.

Rich Carlstedt has quite a few photos out there on the net for his Monitor trunk engine, and you can get a feel for how he handled the internals of the engine by looking at those photos.
http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37639

Pat J

Edit:
I found the photo below on the open web and can't credit the souce since the photo is clipped off.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2014, 03:59:15 AM by PatJ »

Offline Pedro

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Re: SS Xantho John Penn trunk engine
« Reply #62 on: February 09, 2014, 01:11:02 AM »
I haven't got much to report other than I had a very positive response from Dr McCarthy in which he agreed to add dimensions to my sketches, so not to waste his and the museum's time I've been learning Draftsight, which I'm enjoying very much. I don't use computers much and a new Linux os so there's a bit more to learn than for many. Did the first few in 1/10 scale then had the "Doh! moment".

 I think I've pretty much mined the net out of the important info. Hopefully the museum will send a few pics of the blind areas, but not vital. As Pat said, there's plenty of info already for a good representation, but it's always better to have a little too much info than just too little.

PatJ

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Re: SS Xantho John Penn trunk engine
« Reply #63 on: February 13, 2014, 08:45:23 PM »
As I understand it, the working model of the Xanthos engine was build without knowing the exact inner details of the full sized engine, and yet the model still functions well.
But exact details are the icing on the cake, and I love icing, perhaps as much or more as the cake.

I wrote up a Draftsight tutorial a while back.
Not sure if I still know where it is, but I will try and dig it out, for what it is worth.
It is just a summary of how I have used 2D over the years, with an emphasis on using the Drafsight program.

Pat J

Offline Pedro

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Re: SS Xantho John Penn trunk engine
« Reply #64 on: February 15, 2014, 01:43:50 AM »
I've found a draftsight thread of yours on HMEM- it's very instructive. I've sketched a cylinder, a frame, a cylinder cover and the trunk/piston, using the 21" bore/11" trunk as datum scales. They're nearly good enough to send when I've figured out how to print to file, since the tick box won't open for me. I've included a table of the requested dimensions on the drawings so the measurer only has to fill out the blanks and not have to refer to another sheet of paper. (Dimension A, dimension B etc though my guessed sizes also show. I'm trying to make it as easy and readable as possible. There may be an issue of my credibility with the museum, so I'm putting a lot of thought into it.
The blind areas so far are the cylinder contours on the steam chest face, and the main bearing detail. It's hard to make out whether the mains were of the square brass block type, or turned and keyed cylinders. I'm hoping Mack McCarthy can tell me.
If I get enough info, it would be polite (and fun!) to give the museum detailed drawings as a thank you. Whether I'm up to it remains to be seen, but so far I'm confident.
   

PatJ

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Re: SS Xantho John Penn trunk engine
« Reply #65 on: February 15, 2014, 02:13:54 AM »
I am sorry you had to go off-site to get the Draftsight stuff.
I started to load it here yesterday, but did not have time to do much with it.

Good to see you putting the effort into discovering the finer details of the engine, and drawing it in CAD.
Very nice.

Pat J
« Last Edit: February 15, 2014, 03:35:33 AM by PatJ »

Offline Pedro

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Re: SS Xantho John Penn trunk engine
« Reply #66 on: February 17, 2014, 01:40:03 AM »
Thanks for the encouragement! I was going to add my piece to your 2D Cad thread but was too busy until it was too late. I can't deny that a tutorial dedicated to model engines would be of great help, since there's much in the programs that is irrelevant. There is also the issue of glossary: it can be difficult to follow the simplest instructions if one doesn't understand the terms.
That said, I do take pride in not asking for help unless absolutely necessary.  The Draftsight manuals are quite good, and your advice on other forums is first class, though I'm still trying to absorb it. 
Here's my first effort, assuming I can get it to post. I'm very keen to make it as easy as possible for Dr McCarthy and his staff, so any comments would be appreciated.

PatJ

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Re: SS Xantho John Penn trunk engine
« Reply #67 on: February 17, 2014, 02:25:15 AM »
Pedro-

That is great looking CAD work.
Hats off to you for picking it up so quickly.

I will look at it and see if anything jumps out at me.

Pat J

Offline Pedro

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Re: SS Xantho John Penn trunk engine
« Reply #68 on: February 17, 2014, 04:09:30 PM »
Thank you. It's really not too difficult, particularly with the manuals and online help.just needs concentration. Being a complete computer novice (cut and paste was an adventure only a few weeks ago)  I'd recommend Draftsight to anyone, though either it's me (likely) or the Linux version is a bit buggy. A1 for a freebie, though.
Here's the frame and piston. Just repeating to new followers of the thread that these are just information gathering sketches, not drawings, so lacking in detail.

Ps Just saw I missed a dimension- will correct.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2014, 04:27:16 PM by Pedro »

Offline Tempus3966

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Re: SS Xantho John Penn trunk engine
« Reply #69 on: March 19, 2014, 01:06:41 PM »
Hi,

I'm currently attempting to create a complete 3D scan of the trunk engine from SS Xantho.  The work is on-going, but should be completed over the next couple of months.  I've attached a few low-resolution images for reference.  Feel free to contact me should you require any additional information.  Also, one of the conservators, Alex Kilpa, recently completed his masters degree which focused on the  reconstruction and analysis of the safety valve from Xantho.  His dissertation can be downloaded free of charge from www.maawa.net/uploads/Xantho_Thesis_Published_version.pdf

Kevin Edwards




Offline Tempus3966

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Re: SS Xantho John Penn trunk engine
« Reply #70 on: March 19, 2014, 01:24:19 PM »
Here's a better example:




Kevin

Offline tvoght

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Re: SS Xantho John Penn trunk engine
« Reply #71 on: March 19, 2014, 02:36:33 PM »
Kevin,

That's very interesting and would surely be a great help to anyone wanting to model the engine.

I'd be interested in hearing how the scanning was/is done.

--Tim

Offline Tempus3966

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Re: SS Xantho John Penn trunk engine
« Reply #72 on: March 19, 2014, 03:35:18 PM »
Hi Tim,

The engine and some of the larger components (such as the safety valve, isolating valve, cylinders and conn rods) have been scanned using an Artec Eva scanner.  The smaller components are being scanned using a NextEngine 2020i triangulation laser scanner.  I recently published a paper on the latter in the Bulletin of the Australian Institute for Maritime Archaeology.  I can send you a copy if you like.

Best,

Kevin


Offline Pedro

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Re: SS Xantho John Penn trunk engine
« Reply #73 on: March 20, 2014, 09:52:38 PM »
Those scans are just gorgeous! I owe the forum a progress report. Dr McCarthy has been extremely helpful and I think has decided that the time is ripe to "do a job" on the engine. I haven't been posting my drawings yet because I'm nervous about the museum's IPR and besides they're still incomplete so it would only be blowing my own trumpet. It's been a little frustrating since I'm keen to start cutting metal but it won't be long now particularly with Kevin's scans. These are exciting times.

Offline USSMonitorLab

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Re: SS Xantho John Penn trunk engine
« Reply #74 on: March 24, 2014, 07:17:45 PM »
Hi All, we've been following your thread on the SS Xantho engine and noticed you mentioned the USS Monitor. Rich Carlstedt is a wonderful source, given his beautiful little engine, and is a frequent friend/visitor and sometime advisor to us here at the USS Monitor Center, part of The Mariners' Museum and Park. We also happen to have a great model of the engine here that was built by our incomparable former volunteer Bernie Denny before the actual object was retrieved from the wreck site.  He was also a friend to Rich and they had a great correspondence about the engine for several years.
If you have particular questions about the Monitor at any point, please do contact us here in the Batten Conservation Complex. We will be happy to help however we can. We are immersed in the conservation, archaeology, design and alterations of this ship daily. You can see what we've been doing over the years at  http://www.marinersmuseum.org/blogs/ussmonitorcenter/
Please email us directly at: conservation@marinersmuseum.org and we wish you the best of luck with the Xantho engine!