Author Topic: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale  (Read 233876 times)

Offline Steamer5

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Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
« Reply #645 on: July 22, 2016, 08:48:39 AM »
Jason,
 That looks like a job for Chris & his sub & shark team!

Cheers Kerrin
Get excited and make something!

Offline Ramon Wilson

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Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
« Reply #646 on: July 22, 2016, 09:37:57 AM »
Morning guys - thanks for looking in  :)

Don, good to hear from you my friend. I hope your circumstances are quickly resolved to allow you time to get back to that Waller engine as soon as you are able.

Derek - I had to check what was playing  ::). I don't know about getting waarm but the CD in the player was Beethoven - Piano Concerto No 1 - Daniel Barenboim and Otto Klemperer. No laughter that I'm aware of but definitely the Suffolk Coastal Seagull Chorus   to close :D

Jason - we've had several swans over the time I've been at Norwich but all have shown total disinterest in what we do. I would guess this is because the pond is not suitable for nesting and they just 'visit' though we have had cygnets with them. Of course typically it would appear the author does not seem to have recognised that the model boaters are in its territory and not the other way round.

Couldn't help thinking the article was typical media hype though - headline of boats worth £15,000 EACH and then only one worth £15,000 in the text just one of many. Fifteen bloody thousand? yeh pull the other one. Someones seriously got their priorities wrong to spend it on a 'model' boat if so  eh?

Thanks for looking in chaps and your kind comments - all much appreciated as usual  :)

Regards - Ramon
"I ain't here for the long time but I am here for a good time"
(a very apt phrase - thanks to a well meaning MEM friend)

Offline vcutajar

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Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
« Reply #647 on: July 22, 2016, 12:59:14 PM »
The engine sounds like the real thing.

Vince

Offline crueby

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Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
« Reply #648 on: July 22, 2016, 01:26:33 PM »
Jason,
 That looks like a job for Chris & his sub & shark team!

Cheers Kerrin

We are in!

Offline derekwarner

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Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
« Reply #649 on: July 22, 2016, 01:43:22 PM »
Ramon.......your have a demonstrated ability and taste for fine woodwork, exquisite machinery...and now also we see a liking for quality music to work by     ......Derek   :Director:

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjkq5Ori4fOAhUCm5QKHaKuDicQyCkIIDAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DEgKjp98fPnw&usg=AFQjCNH_NerHIJ7dREOI4oSHg6K9t_NWZQ
Derek L Warner - Honorary Secretary [Retired]
Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op - Australia
www.ils.org.au

Offline Ramon Wilson

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Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
« Reply #650 on: July 22, 2016, 09:12:12 PM »
Guys - a question - which I hope someone can answer.

I'm about to make the oil separator and have a nice length of 22swg brass tube that would be fine from a size point of view.

I am aware of the perils of de-zincification  but am unsure of it's exact cause - is it temperature/pressure based or just contact with steam vapour.

If it's temp/pressure based then I'm assuming it might be okay to use this brass tube with brass end plates - the finished item is open to atmosphere so the pressure side is out of the equation at least. I'm thinking that as this is just a 'collector' and not under pressure it should be okay but what do you think?

Having deliberated as to where I was going to site this part of the system for so long it has just become so bloody obvious that I'm itching to get on so a quick response would be most appreciated

Any negative thoughts on using this before I waste a nice piece of brass tube ? :-\

Thanks in advance - Ramon

PS Thanks for the link Derek - although I like most classical music it's very much Beethoven before all else  ;)  Strange, but if I play it on CD it's just in the background but if it comes on the radio I turn it up and stop to listen - ah 'nowt so strange as folk'  ::)
"I ain't here for the long time but I am here for a good time"
(a very apt phrase - thanks to a well meaning MEM friend)

Offline derekwarner

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Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
« Reply #651 on: July 22, 2016, 10:36:32 PM »
Ramon.............Google provides some interesting articles on de-zincification........the following is rather straight forward

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi-0YHT_ofOAhWCFJQKHQfmDswQFghDMAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.chasebrass.com%2FPortals%2F0%2FEco%2520Brass%2FDezincification%2520Web%2520Class%2520ver%25206-25-14%2520(2).pdf&usg=AFQjCNFoEqoB1VuSUk9VeauCz6G4CgMa0w

Essentially an electrochemical issue between metals of lower nobility....having said this, elevated temperatures combined with poor water quality can accelerate the process

Certainly UK boiler inspectors apparently shy away from brass boilers, yet their Continental cousins [Regner] have no issue with brass in certain applications

Considering the de-oiler is a non pressurised...I would doubt your great great great grandson would see the brass de-oiler fall apart at the internal seams from de-zincification :slap:

One sure way of eliminating any concern would be with soft soldered construction [as you are changing the table of nobility between elements] including top & bottom plates bronze entry & exit bushes for increased mechanical strength

Derek

Derek L Warner - Honorary Secretary [Retired]
Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op - Australia
www.ils.org.au

Offline Ramon Wilson

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Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
« Reply #652 on: July 22, 2016, 11:27:31 PM »
Hi Derek - thanks for the response and the link. I have read right through but could not find anything that said don't use brass for an oil separator  ;)

I have mentioned this before somewhere but several years ago - before I had even heard of de-zincification I made a home designed, sort of yarrow type, boiler using some brass tube scrounged off the chief engineer on the Glomar North Sea (drill ship). I used some brass sheet of unknown quality for the end plates which I formed in a small press tool in one hit without annealing (gives an idea of it's malleability). Within a year I added another off take and re-pressure tested it but could not raise the pressure beyond a few pounds as those end plates were totally porous  :o Since then I have always been suspicious of using brass in any steam application.

Your suggestion of soft solder sounds feasible - the heat should not be of concern by the time it arrives in the vessel and besides I do have some high temp SS.

Thanks for your input as usual

Regards - Ramon
"I ain't here for the long time but I am here for a good time"
(a very apt phrase - thanks to a well meaning MEM friend)

Offline K.B.C

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Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
« Reply #653 on: July 22, 2016, 11:32:21 PM »
Hi Derek - thanks for the response and the link. I have read right through but could not find anything that said don't use brass for an oil separator  ;)

I have mentioned this before somewhere but several years ago - before I had even heard of de-zincification I made a home designed, sort of yarrow type, boiler using some brass tube scrounged off the chief engineer on the Glomar North Sea (drill ship). I used some brass sheet of unknown quality for the end plates which I formed in a small press tool in one hit without annealing (gives an idea of it's malleability). Within a year I added another off take and re-pressure tested it but could not raise the pressure beyond a few pounds as those end plates were totally porous  :o Since then I have always been suspicious of using brass in any steam application.

Your suggestion of soft solder sounds feasible - the heat should not be of concern by the time it arrives in the vessel and besides I do have some high temp SS.

Thanks for your input as usual

Regards - Ramon


Ramon,
Make your oil trap from the brass tube, our late friend Mick ( Patternmaker ) used brass in his Wide Wake" oil trap and I have seen many made from brass ( http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,30710.225.html ).. you can use either Soft solder or Silver solder, my preference always is Silver solder.

Derek it has been discussed on many occasions by your self and others, the reason that we don't like brass boilers in the U.K. is because people make boilers from any bit of brass tube that they happen to have kicking about their workshop or from a scrap yard.

The German and British use brass in their boiles because they buy in such large quantities they can specify the gauge and the quality of the brass and they then know what they are working with.

George.
Your never too old to learn.

Offline derekwarner

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Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
« Reply #654 on: July 23, 2016, 02:47:53 AM »
Ramon......the point with soft solder which I did not labour upon is that by the elimination of that ~~55% silver in the soldering process, we have changed the table of noble elements

No longer is the silver trying to create the electrolytic cell and pull the zinc from RED brass alloy solution

As K.B.C [George] notes and I agree, silver soldering such a brass de-oiler would be somewhat easier than the selective [water] cooling of individual component parts as needed for soft soldering

A Canadian modeller G George ...[as found on Model Boat Mayhem] is an absolute perfectionist in creating fabricated marine structure's [usually in 1/48 scale] with soft soldered brass construction. This chap acknowledges the somewhat different approach to mechanical joint design and the use of many varied forms of heat sinks as used in his constructions

Derek
« Last Edit: July 23, 2016, 10:15:55 PM by derekwarner_decoy »
Derek L Warner - Honorary Secretary [Retired]
Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op - Australia
www.ils.org.au

Offline Jasonb

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Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
« Reply #655 on: July 23, 2016, 07:41:41 AM »
I usually go by the rule of thumb that if it is going to come into contact with the boiler WATER then don't use brass, if only comming into contact with steam then brass is OK. After all think of all those brass steam fittings we use.

Offline Ramon Wilson

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Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
« Reply #656 on: July 23, 2016, 10:27:19 AM »
Morning guys - no sailing today as it's 'submarine weekend'  :-\

Thanks for your usual helpful responses - brass it is then.  I'm thinking it will possibly be a composite of solders - silver to pop the fittings in with and soft solder on the ends. (it will be a horizontal one BTW) but we'll see. The only problem I have now is how to actually mount it securely as there is little room and the main plant hold down bolt is directly underneath where it's destined to go - however as Baldrick would say 'I have a cunning plan'  ;)

George I took a look at Micks thread - what a shame he's not with us - he would have enjoyed this I'm sure.

Thanks again - Ramon
"I ain't here for the long time but I am here for a good time"
(a very apt phrase - thanks to a well meaning MEM friend)

Offline Jasonb

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Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
« Reply #657 on: July 23, 2016, 11:38:37 AM »
Morning guys - no sailing today as it's 'submarine weekend'  :-\

I thought they may welcome a few targets ;)

Offline Ramon Wilson

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Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
« Reply #658 on: July 24, 2016, 11:05:30 PM »
I thought they may welcome a few targets ;)

Well, I went along today - nothing was sunk (except the submarines of course) and nothing torpedoed  :o

Though I have to say it's not for me, the 'tech-y' side of making something work underwater is quite impressive to say the least. Among many fine examples there was one there about twelve feet long and sailing and submerging most realistically. (Sorry, but no pics taken I'm afraid)

Ah well, back on the steam launch - need to get prepped for Thursday - it's final pressure and steam test day  :)

Regards - Ramon
"I ain't here for the long time but I am here for a good time"
(a very apt phrase - thanks to a well meaning MEM friend)

Offline Ramon Wilson

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Re: 'WIDE A WAKE' a steam launch tale
« Reply #659 on: July 27, 2016, 11:04:43 PM »
Hi guys - another quick update to say that the oil separator is now made and installed. I set out to make it about 60mm longer but it just looked over size so reduced it to what you see. The fittings are all silver soldered but the end caps are soft soldered. I don't have any idea how long this will take to fill - only time will tell but as the saying goes " 'owts better than n'owt in a crisis"





Next up is the gas regulator and several shut off valves but all being well if the second pressure and steam test is successful tomorrow (as well as the gas tank test) the plant can now be put in the boat ready for the final fitting out - not long to go now ;)

Regards - Ramon
"I ain't here for the long time but I am here for a good time"
(a very apt phrase - thanks to a well meaning MEM friend)

 

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