Author Topic: 16 pole 4 phase model generator.  (Read 8009 times)

Offline old-and-broken

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16 pole 4 phase model generator.
« on: September 15, 2013, 08:27:43 PM »
On your marks

Get set

Go!

The project started before I knew it had begun.  My grandson wanted something to do one weekend.  He's 6.  I pointed out an old box fan and asked him if he knew how it worked.  He shook his head, and said no.  I handed him a screwdriver and a set of wire cutters.  Then I found a chair and watched the wonderful acts of childhood discovery begin.  Here is what he started with



When the dust settled and the hand tools cooled off, this is what I had.



The sharp eyed reader will notice that there are two motors there, less one cover and one rotor.  The two stators will be mounted together as one and the rotor will be turned down a fraction to allow room for the magnets.  Speaking of magnets.  I needed some for this project.  So...



I tried winding some wire around one of the stator 'horns' and quickly determined hand winding the coils was not going to happen in my lifetime.  I remembered that I had machines which remove metal, and if I used those to remove the wings on the ends of the stator poles, I could wind the coils on an insulating form and then just 'slip' them on the poles.  I did some digging and found where I had stashed some 1/64 thick ABS plastic sheeting.



 A little measuring and a few bending experiments later I came up with the method of making a rectangular shape on which to wind the coils, and then I should be able to slip these, pre-wound with wire, on the stator poles.




That brings me to today, and my little job for the X2 mill.  Some scrap aluminum to hold the stator up and some 5/16 bolts to hold it down.



An MT3 collet holding a 3/16 four flute endmill, and expertly placed in position with the aid of an eyeball that was last calibrated in 1962.   :Lol:



Now, unfortunately, I have to power down the computer, so I can power up the little mill.  We don't have a proper 'working' outlet in the shop room, which is also where the computer resides.  I'm scared to have the mill running on the same little power strip as the computer while both are on.  I  can't afford a repair on the computer if something should happen.

More to come,
Mark



A journey of 1000 miles begins with the first step.

Offline ths

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Re: 16 pole 4 phase model generator.
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2013, 11:51:06 AM »
Well, I'm interested...

Hugh.

Offline steamer

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Re: 16 pole 4 phase model generator.
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2013, 12:12:58 PM »
Yes!  Very Interesting!

Dave
"Mister M'Andrew, don't you think steam spoils romance at sea?"
Damned ijjit!

Offline old-and-broken

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Re: 16 pole 4 phase model generator.
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2013, 09:42:13 PM »
Okay.  I'm off to a slow start but I foresee this little machining operation picking up speed.  I have 64 of those little 'bumps' to trim off.  Here I have 5 of them removed and a 6th one mostly off, just needing a final pass to bring it into alignment with the pole.

So, 58 more to go.   :cartwheel:



This picture is from yesterdays evenings play session.  I'm just in from a long 12 hour day making the donuts and I'm gonna take a little nappy-poo, but I'm eager to remove about 8 to 10 more of the little tits later this evening.  :P

More to come,
Mark
A journey of 1000 miles begins with the first step.

Offline sshire

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Re: 16 pole 4 phase model generator.
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2013, 01:39:29 AM »
Really watching this, Mark. My electrical theory is somewhere south of zero. Very curious how this is going to play out. Keep going.
Best,
Stan

Offline old-and-broken

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Re: 16 pole 4 phase model generator.
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2013, 04:52:27 AM »
About 12 completed cuts on the stator and my CHEAP chinese endmill stopped cutting and started rolling up thin sheets of swarf.  At first I thought I might have been feeding to fast.  I finished the cut and started another.  It was a complete wash.  I stopped before the rolled up metal shavings, which never detached, deformed the work piece too much.  The tool is now as dull as mono-toned psycho-analyst.

Got a good paycheck Friday, and after groceries and a much needed haircut, decided I had enough to spare for a new, HERTEL double ended End mill.  Four flute, TiCN coating.  A real coating, not that yellow magic marker stuff on the cheap chinese endmill.   :Mad:    Harbor Freight has good deals, but end mills are apparently not one of them.  Looking forward to diving in again in just a couple more days.

Don't worry, the project is still a go, but I'm only slightly faster than continental drift.   :lolb:   

Sorry to have posted without any progress to report.

Mark
A journey of 1000 miles begins with the first step.

Offline swilliams

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Re: 16 pole 4 phase model generator.
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2013, 10:08:07 AM »
I'm just in from a long 12 hour day making the donuts and I'm gonna take a little nappy-poo ...

Are you realise how that reads for us non-Americans??   :lolb:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaper


but seriously - this is a cool thread, I'm following

Cheers
Steve

Offline b.lindsey

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Re: 16 pole 4 phase model generator.
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2013, 11:45:42 AM »
Its not a race Mark, so take all the time you need or want... I'm following along too but admittedly, all this electric and electronic stuff is more like black magic to me :)

Bill

Offline Tennessee Whiskey

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Re: 16 pole 4 phase model generator.
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2013, 10:31:36 PM »
As it was to Edison, but, I'm watching also

 Whiskey

Offline steamer

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Re: 16 pole 4 phase model generator.
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2013, 10:39:30 AM »
Your doing fine....and it's not a race...keep going.....I'll keep watching! :ThumbsUp:

Dave
"Mister M'Andrew, don't you think steam spoils romance at sea?"
Damned ijjit!

Offline Ian S C

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Re: 16 pole 4 phase model generator.
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2013, 01:52:42 PM »
Good work Mark.  There is another way of making armatures, you may be familiar with the claw type used in automotive alternators,  I have made two of these type of armatures for little alternators, instead of a wound electo - magnet, I used donut shaped magnets, they either came from the Magnetron in a micro wave oven, or a loud speaker, I'm not sure but I used three or four magnets.    Ian S C
« Last Edit: September 25, 2013, 01:57:39 PM by Ian S C »

Offline jwcnc1911

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Re: 16 pole 4 phase model generator.
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2013, 02:03:52 PM »
Ian,

I see all of your posts and wonder if there's anything you don't know.  I'm convinced you should write a book!

All this electronics stuff is just black magic to me.
----------
JW

Offline old-and-broken

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Re: 16 pole 4 phase model generator.
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2013, 11:07:47 PM »
Half-time folks.  One stator, cuts completed, is ready to receive windings.  Still one to go, but this one will go faster now that I have a better end-mill.  The steel is super soft and cuts like butter. 



The damaged area is small and although I made a big fuss about it, I doubt it will cause any problems.  I can put that side in the middle and when the two pieces are pressed together with bolts, the offending leaves will lay flat.

Slow and steady.  I won't win any races, but like you guys have said.  This isn't a race.  It's an adventure; wait, that was something else.  :insane:

Next update should be much quicker than this one.




A journey of 1000 miles begins with the first step.

Offline old-and-broken

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Re: 16 pole 4 phase model generator.
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2014, 04:16:00 PM »
I still intend to finish this project, but I was side railed by a rather severe medical problem.   Almost good as before now.  Medication working and strength returning, I foresee getting going on the finishing cuts on the stator sometime next week.  Whether the whole thing works as I desire is another thing.  I just want to finish this thing I've started.

Also the Title is incorrect now that I have had sufficient time to think about things.  Since I intend to use just 12 magnets, it should factually be titled a 12 pole 4 phase model generator, because the number of stator poles is not a proper way to identify multi-polar generators.  Still the math was correctly applied and it will generate 60Hz AC at a mere 600 RPM.  So, for those who still give a Hoot.  Owl be getting back to model making in a few days.


Mark
A journey of 1000 miles begins with the first step.

Offline Don1966

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Re: 16 pole 4 phase model generator.
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2014, 04:43:39 PM »
Mark I have been following along with great interest. I am curious to see how you get four phases out of  12 pole. It takes two poles to produce a sine wave. If you divide 4 into 12 this gives you 3 poles per phase. Having an odd number of pole will give you 1 and a half sine wave per pole. Your orginal title had 16 poles which would give you equal poles for the 4 phases.
I might add that it is not the poles on the armature that will give you the 4 phases but the winding on the stator. Maybe this is what I am missing here to see just what you are trying to accomplish.
If you can clear this up for me, I might see it better.

Don
« Last Edit: January 05, 2014, 04:50:18 PM by Don1966 »