Author Topic: Fitting a DRO to a BCA  (Read 14544 times)

Offline Jo

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Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« on: September 03, 2013, 11:59:24 AM »
I have had a couple of queries as to how I fitted a DRO to my BCA. So I thought it would be best to add it here:

Initially I questioned a 2 or 3 axis setup and in the end opted for a 3 axis, it was only an extra £80 and it was well worth it. I brought my kit from Colin at CBR Electronics for £370, all three axis are slim sino scales, the standard ones  will not fit. There was an option for a graphical display that would have allowed the rotary movement of the table to also be taken into account but I decided that that capability was beyond my machining knowledge/skills and more expensive.

So the fitting the X axis is the easy one:



The ruler at the front of the table has been taken off and the read head mounted using the original pointer mounting plate with simple straight piece of metal screwed into the bed at either end . Watch that bolt under the Y axis: that is the bed lock and there is also a lubrication point you need to keep clear of.

The Y axis was more of a challenge:



I ended up hanging it off the left hand end of the bed because you need access to the rotary table lock on either side of the rotary table. I purchased a longer scale than necessary for this axis so that it was easier to mount. The glass scale is mounted on the two dowels on either end they are both 1/2" diameter: I keep questioning if it is safe there but so far it is doing ok. The read head is shimmed/screwed on to the end of the bed.

Now the challenge the Z axis, this was a real headache as the head needs to be able to tilt and the scale needs to miss the belt:







In the end I found it was just possible if I dropped of the bed stops and used its Tee slot and a bit of angled aluminium channel to mount the read head on the side of the BCA head. The glass scale is mounted top and bottom on two bits of thick aluminium angle. I normally try to make any DRO mounts such that the read head doesn't move so that the cable doesn't either but I couldn't see an alternative on this one. The result is the cable runs over the top of the top bracket and I have put a plastic P clip to enable the protected cable to have a smooth run.

I would advise anyone to go with a 3 axis setup... And my only complaint? The BCA is more accurate than the scales. The scales only go to 0.005mm, with more accurate/expensive scales you could easily do 0.0005mm.

Jo
« Last Edit: October 22, 2017, 07:33:35 PM by Jo »
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Offline Firebird

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2013, 10:31:32 PM »
Hi Jo

Nice stuff. I have the cheapo scales on my X1 and X3 mills and would love to fit the better quality ones. I have seen mention of the BCA machine any chance of a few pics of the machine.

Cheers

Rich

Offline Jo

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2013, 11:11:34 PM »
Rich, you will see lots of photos of her in use in my threads. So let me just add the overall picture of her:



Jo

« Last Edit: October 22, 2017, 07:32:48 PM by Jo »
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Offline steamer

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2013, 11:41:00 AM »
Nice write up Jo!....thanks!...

I eventually want to put one on my SB.....so I'll be sure to pay attention!

Dave
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Offline Firebird

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2013, 08:51:21 PM »
Hi

Thanks Jo, now I want one  :facepalm:

Cheers

Rich

Offline Jo

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2013, 09:06:29 PM »
Rich, no you need one,  ;) trust me.

Jo
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Offline pgp001

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2013, 10:59:34 PM »
Everyone should have one. Just go for it.

Phil

Offline steamer

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2013, 12:07:15 AM »
I have a very basic one on my Clausing mill.......Trust me .....If it didn't have it I'd get it!

YOU NEED ONE!


Dave
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Offline mklotz

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2013, 12:14:56 AM »
I think that sending the message that a DRO is essential to the novices and lurkers who may be reading this thread is a bit irresponsible.

Let's face it, they're nice to have but generations of model engineers have built wonderful things without them.
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Offline Mosey

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2013, 12:21:55 AM »
Inexpensive import DRO's mounted on an old, not-so-tight machine by a novice sounds like a good use of resources. Learn how to make a simple mount, get very accurate movements on your machine is worth a lot to some like me. I don't think he said that you must do it.

Mosey :shrug:

Offline steamer

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2013, 12:37:00 AM »
Yup   They have.

I still want one.....My lathe doesn't have one....and with a lathe...you don't need it as bad.

But on a mill...with a worn lead-screw, with more backlash in the middle than the ends, and small dials that are very hard to read....it's tough...and as my eye sight gets worse...it's tougher.

My Van Norman never had a DRO on it...and I had the backlash in the middle down to .004"...and zero at the ends...it wasn't so bad...other than counting the many turns and then loosing your count....very irritating...so you rely on your layout lines....you did put those in right?

Yes Whitworth didn't have linear scales....but if they were available....he would!
Now is it the first thing you should buy? ....NO...I think plenty can be accomplished without...no doubt.

But as funds are available...and other things squared away...go for it

Dave

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Offline Tennessee Whiskey

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2013, 12:58:00 AM »
Ok, education time. I've heard and read numerous times over; With a DRO You don't have to worry about backlash. Now, I catch myself bumping the dials to get .ooo with no regard of cutter rotation. A bump this way and then maybe a harder bump that way. I swear I'm going against everything I was taught sometimes. Once I take that big "bump" out do I still need to take that little "bump" out in the opposite direction. I hope that made sense. If not I'll  try and re-ask

Whiskey

Offline steamer

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2013, 01:51:42 AM »
Hey Eric,

Not sure what you mean....but I'll try if you do!

 8)

Dave
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Offline Don1966

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2013, 03:34:10 AM »
I think what Eric is talking about is when you bump forward or reverse to zero the dial or set the dial, does it take out the Backlash. As lone as you move it it direction of the cutting force. What I usual do is move it back and advance the dial slowly towards the cutter to set my scale. That way there is no backlash in the dail to move the axis. Also lock the axis that is not moving. I believe this is what you wanted Eric.

Don

Offline steamer

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2013, 04:14:53 AM »
Yes!

Dave
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Offline pgp001

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2013, 07:37:50 AM »
I wasn't talking about the DRO when I said everyone should have one.
I meant the BCA jig borer, and If it has a DRO fitted then so much the better.

Phil

Offline Jo

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2013, 07:47:20 AM »
So was I Phil  ;)

Jo
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Offline grayone

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2013, 10:31:45 AM »
Hi Jo do you have contact details for CBR Electronics :help:
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Offline Jo

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2013, 10:37:46 AM »
As requested CBR Electronics contact details:

Colin Roinson Tel: 07761649229  <electronics.cbr@gmail.com >

Colin operates as the UK distributor for the SINPO equipment. Nice guy, very helpful :ThumbsUp:.

But looking at your location you might want to buy directly from the Hongkong supplier.

Jo
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Offline Mosey

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2013, 02:00:30 PM »
Come on , guys and gals, where do I find these jig borers? Haven't seen too many lately. Am I missing some secret dealer?
Mosey  :headscratch:

Offline Jo

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2013, 02:10:49 PM »
I thought you had an F1...so why would you need a BCA?

Jo
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Offline Dan Rowe

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2013, 02:42:21 PM »
Jo, I had never heard of a BCA before I saw yours in a thread. I do not think they are very common on this side of the pond.
I had to read up about them. http://www.lathes.co.uk/BCA/
Not the same Boley I was thinking of.

Dan
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Offline grayone

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2013, 03:53:08 PM »


But looking at your location you might want to buy directly from the Hongkong supplier.

Jo

Hi Jo I only work here  :zap: for now, my home (workshop  :cheers:) is in the UK which is where I will be and nicely retired by December  :cartwheel:
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Offline Mosey

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2013, 06:46:14 PM »
JO,
You know as well better than anyone, that even though I do have an F1, that doesn't mean I don't want another. I drool over your BCA. This is not a zero-sum game! The more the better. After all, how many lathes does a person need? Don't answer that.
This winter the F1 gets tooled up.
Thanks for your concern, though.
Mosey :mischief:

Offline Jo

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2013, 07:37:42 PM »
.. how many lathes does a person need? Don't answer that.

I only have 7 (Colchester, Cowells 1&2, Hobbymat, Prazimat, S7B,  and this little beauty:



which I believe is a brand new  Webster-Whitcombe (WW crossed axes as a trade mark). 7 is one of my lucky numbers, but 2 of the lathes are up for sale,  :thinking: but I am trying not to buy a schuablin  :o or a Pultra   :) that are both tempting me. If I don't then I would have the space for mill number 4. Which I already have the cash burning a hole in my pocket for :whoohoo: but I have not yet been tempted..

As for need: For accuracy I know only need my (3HP) colchester master but I suspect that schuabin that I am trying not to be seduced by would prove to be her better.

Jo

Edit: Damm.. I have just realised that one of my hair is in the photograph   :embarassed: I suppose that proves just how big she is. She wins the prize as my cheapest lathe at under £10  ;).
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 07:42:19 PM by Jo »
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Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2013, 01:52:09 AM »
I have just realised that one of my hair is in the photograph   :embarassed:

A personal touch is always a nice addition to any project.
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Offline Firebird

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2013, 06:21:46 PM »
Hi

Iv'e had a look around the interweb at these machines. Expensive ain't they  :o

Cheers

Rich

Offline Jo

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2013, 06:33:23 PM »
My biggest regret was that I didn't buy an immaculate, fully tooled one on its stand about 5 years ago for £2300  :-\ Instead I paid £600 for my one.

I have thought about a second, instead of the Cowells Mill but it is so heavy that I don't think I could get it in the house  :LittleDevil:

Jo
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Offline NickG

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2013, 08:26:48 PM »
Good point though Marv, some awesome stuff has been made with a lathe and hand tools or a vertical slide, certainly no DROs. Having used one before I must admit I do want one though!

Offline mklotz

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2013, 10:00:53 PM »
Good point though Marv, some awesome stuff has been made with a lathe and hand tools or a vertical slide, certainly no DROs. Having used one before I must admit I do want one though!

Yeah, me too.  But "want" is not the same as "need".  [And that goes for jig borers as well.]
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Offline Mosey

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #30 on: September 09, 2013, 12:26:30 AM »
A jig borer in my little shop would be as appropriate as a Cruise missile. About when I have really mastered the use of the manual lathe and mill, I'll think about one again. I suspect that I'm not alone in this state of (in)competence. I'll keep working, reading you guys, and listening. That doesn't mean that I don't love all of those dials and scraped ways.
 :pinkelephant:
Mosey

Offline Mcgyver

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2017, 06:17:04 PM »
I have had a couple of queries as to how I fitted a DRO to my BCA. So I thought it would be best to add it here:


Hi Jo,

I know this is an old thread, but I went searching for it, your BCA/DRO installation, and unfortunately your photos are another victim of the photobucket nonsense :(

With a great big PLEASE, might it be possible to repost them here from a different server (imgur has been working well for me), or even email them?

thanks very much

Mike

Offline Jo

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2017, 07:31:07 PM »
They are still showing for me  :headscratch:

I have attached the installation pictures to the original posts  ;)

Jo
« Last Edit: October 22, 2017, 07:34:43 PM by Jo »
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Offline pgp001

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2017, 10:32:14 PM »
There are a few photo's of fitting a DRO to my Boley if you are interested. They are here:
http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/thumbnails.php?album=121



Phil

Offline Mcgyver

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2017, 10:43:33 PM »
interesting that they are still showing for you, I get the hated photobucket icon.  Thank you!! for attaching the pics, and Phil, thanks, I'll check those out.

I'm doing a major upgrade on mine and thought I'm doing everything else, why not a DRO.  Have you both been impressed with the ones you installed?  Whats the resolution on them?

Thanks again






Offline pgp001

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2017, 11:07:18 PM »
They quote on the ebay listing:- Default resolution 5 um/0.0002” resolution.
See ebay number 321128056293 for a typical one.

I would not be without mine, it transformed the machine up a gear for me.

Phil

Offline Jo

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #36 on: October 23, 2017, 08:00:15 AM »
Fitting Digital Read Outs to any machine transforms their use - Lathes as well as milling machines  ;)

I recently did a restoration on my BCA spindle bearings and was happy to find that even after 70 years all I needed to do was to take the shim out and fit one a couple of thou thinner and the spindle/bearings are spot on again and good for another 70 years :cartwheel:

Unless you have your machine in a temperature controlled environment (or are using them on the Lathe cross slide) there is little point in going for the high spec scales.

Jo
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Offline Jasonb

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #37 on: October 23, 2017, 08:39:55 AM »
interesting that they are still showing for you, I get the hated photobucket icon. 

Go to the bottom of the post and Jo has added the photos as attachments, the old PB icons are still there too.

Offline Steamer5

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #38 on: October 23, 2017, 10:53:02 AM »
Hi Jo,
 Cutting it a bit fine on updating the bearings for 70 years aren't you?  :lolb:
Given your stash of castings I would be think another 30 on top of that would be more likely!

Oh & before you jump up & down....I'm sure Im not the only one who will be sticking around, well at least hoping too, to follow your adventures! :ThumbsUp:

Cheers Kerrin
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Offline Jo

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #39 on: October 23, 2017, 11:06:18 AM »
Hi Jo,
 Cutting it a bit fine on updating the bearings for 70 years aren't you?  :lolb:

I hope you didn't think I needed to change them  :o The originals are still in there  ;)

I thought you guys had been frightened off by JB making sniping comments on my threads  :noidea: Or was it the tales of Surus  :pinkelephant:  :hellno:

Jo
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Offline Mcgyver

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Re: Fitting a DRO to a BCA
« Reply #40 on: October 24, 2017, 02:55:22 PM »
There are a few photo's of fitting a DRO to my Boley if you are interested. They are here:


Phil

ah, so you must be the chap who made the Herculean effort on the BCA tooling?  I remember the thread and a few of the images look the same.  Very inspirational.

I've taken a slightly different tact.  I've replaced the spindle with a T slotted block that I scraped in and then am building a new spindle for ER collets.  The idea of the T slot block is that it can become a platform for all manner of accessories.  I've adapted the UPT to it and am noodling around crazy ideas like a small slotting head, high speed spindle and maybe an EDM sinker (adding the Z power feed would be awesome for use with a boring head as well).   I also thought it could be made a hobbing machine given the head tilts.  It would be via coupling electronically the spindle and the X (ala the late John Stevenson).  I've ground the shaft for a new spindle and started working on the housing, but the internal grinder had a lot of vibration so I started building a soft bearing dynamic balancer....another rabbit hole.  One day I'll get back to model engines
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 08:42:18 PM by Mcgyver »

 

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