No excuse

[mklotz]

No more excuses not to have a full-blown scientific calculator on your workbench...

SWMBO dragged me to the local Dollar Tree store today and they were selling these for a dollar apiece.



Incredible.

[ths]

My boy was issued a $40 HP model at school. I had just been to the Aldis back to school sale, where I had bought one that was identical in every respect, and even came up with the same answers. It was $2.95. I have one on my ipad that was a free download.

Hugh.

[tel]

A whole dollar tho?  Didn't they have any 95c shop soiled ones?

[smfr]

I still have the Casio calculator I used in school almost 30 years ago, with the original set of batteries, and it still works just fine   

Simon

[steamer]

Yup,.....got my HP41CV from College....too long ago...had to find batteries for it but it works!

Dave

[b.lindsey]

30 year old batteries that stil work?  That's incredible!!

Bill

Btw...nice cap tel

[ProdEng]

An HP15C has been my constant companion for nearly 30 years; it cost 100 pounds back then.  HP have started making it again after a 20 year break and are asking $250 for it!

[dsquire]

No more excuses not to have a full-blown scientific calculator on your workbench...

SWMBO dragged me to the local Dollar Tree store today and they were selling these for a dollar apiece.



Incredible.

At that price you better buy a dozen or so. 1 to use and 11 to steal batteries from when needed. Where else are you going to get batteries that cheap.

Cheers 

Don

[MuellerNick]

No more excuses not to have a full-blown scientific calculator on your workbench...

Converting to bin, oct and hex in the shop is a must!
But how will you use hex without the A, B, C, D, E and F-keys?


At least the faculty ("!") is handy in the shop, if you want to know how many ways there are to go wrong. 


Nick

[mklotz]

No more excuses not to have a full-blown scientific calculator on your workbench...

Converting to bin, oct and hex in the shop is a must!
But how will you use hex without the A, B, C, D, E and F-keys?

The red letters are washed out in the glare in the photo, but, when you shift into hex mode,

exp => A
y^x => B
sqrt => C
->DEG => D
ln => E
log => F

with the shift key.


At least the faculty ("!") is handy in the shop, if you want to know how many ways there are to go wrong. 

Auf Englisch sagt man "factorial".

[Lew Hartswick]

To bad it has an  =  key.   :-)
   ...lew...

[Arbalest]

I don't use my scientific calculator any more. I downloaded a free app for the iPad that does so much more including conversions with updated currency, weight, angle area etc etc. Check it out it's called PCalc lite. It has paid for extras at starting at 69p but even in basic form it's the best calculator I've ever used because of the large IPad display! 

[steamer]

YUP....I have a really nice scientific calculator on my Android phone....with graphing....and a 20-20000 hz spectral analyzer, a good sound meter with peak and weighted average ....and a couple of other things....
and a level....when my co worker asked his Iphone assistant.."SIRIS" where one could hide a body,,.,it responded with a suggestion for the swamp next to the building...

Dave

[Jo]

I use a really basic calculator in the workshop that our finance department decided they didn't need any more  Its nice as it has really large numerals.

I do however keep forgetting that all of the DROs have built in calculator functionality 

Jo

[MuellerNick]

I do however keep forgetting that all of the DROs have built in calculator functionality 

Just not handy!
On the PC, I rarely use the calculator-app
On the lathe, I just once used the trig calculator built into the control.
On the mill, I think there is some calculator around (or could be installed).


A pocket calculator is much more handy. I see it this way: You need to insert a value somewhere. So that starts a new sub-task and it is bothersome to leave what you just did, to get that value. So part of the sub-task is done in a different context: A pocket calculator.


Looks like I work stack oriented (but I don't use UPN).




Nick

[Maryak]

I Agree with Nick,

I have a calculator on my desk at home and another one in the workshop. Usually use the calculator unless I'm working with Excel because as Nick says you more or less have to stop what your doing to use some other program or function either on a tool or the computer. As back up in the digital age I have an analog calculator which was formerly known as a slide rule and it never runs out of batteries at an inopportune moment.

Oh yes, I must confess to a belief that phones of all types are for verbal communication. All the rest, that you now have to pay for, is unused and of no interest to me, before you ask, that also includes SMS. If you want to talk phone me if you want to write email or snailmail me.

Just one of my old phart idiosyncrasies.

Best Regards
Bob

[steamer]

I usually use the COC version...with the #2 upgrade....it even has an eraser!

Dave

[mklotz]

I have to agree with Bob on this one.  I don't own a cell phone and won't until I get so decrepit that, for my own safety, I have to have a means of summoning help.  I just can't get past the distracted idiots walking out into traffic while finger-f.....g their phones or the annoying loud mouths in restaurants trumpeting their noisy arguments with their offspring.

Calculators being as cheap as they are, I have them scattered about in the shop, by my easy chair and several at my desk.  In addition, I did write my own calculator program incorporating my own particular requirements (available on my page).  But as Nick and Bob say, I tend to use it much less than the HP35s and the Casios lying next to me.  Preserving one's train of thought becomes ever more important with age.

[cfellows]

I have a cheap desktop calculator in my shop for most simple calculations.  I like Excel for trig functions, but I sure wish I could use degrees instead of radians!   

Chuck

Edit:  I have a Samsung smartphone but I only use the 3G wireless for phone calls.  I don't give out my number so I rarely actually use the phone.  I use WiFi for all the internet stuff, email, etc.

[mklotz]

I like Excel for trig functions, but I sure wish I could use degrees instead of radians!

I detest spread sheets and don't use them so this may be a stupid question...

Can you define new functions in Excel?  If so, define functions like

sind (x) = sin (x*pi/180)

asind (z) = (180/pi) * asin(z)

[steamer]

That's how it's done Marv....and Chuck

It's pretty easy to get to degree's minutes and seconds from there.

Dave

[mklotz]

Why is everyone (naval navigators excepted) so hung up on (angular) minutes and seconds?  It's another one of those awkward, antiquated measures the Inferial system so loves.  Decimal degrees are far easier to manipulate.

If your spreadsheet allows the definition of global constants, it's worth defining:

pi = 3.1415926535898  (unless the value is built-into the spreadsheet)

DPR = 180/pi   (Degrees Per Radian)

RPD = pi/180   (Radians Per Degree)

so the poor processor doesn't have to recompute them every time you use them.

[Mosey]

Degrees and Minutes come to us from naval applications. That is how they did it traditionally, so it is still their way.
And don't forget how important your FirstAlert is, Marv. Please make sure you have fresh batteries in it next to your armchair.
Mosey
 

[mklotz]

Yes, that's why I excused the sailors.  A minute is *about* one nautical mile (6076 ft) measured on a great circle.  Thus, it's a utilitarian measure for that application.  But that hardly justifies dragging this Babylonian artifact along into every application where we measure angles.

Mosey, my FirstAlert is my wife.  She watches me constantly to ensure that I'm not comatose and  thus avoiding all the tasks she has planned for me.  No batteries required.

[Mosey]

But think, we could get rid of the archaic base-60 babylonian compass, and go to a decimal compass...100 degrees makes a circle. Neat and clean. What would that do to trigonometry? How much would the tangent of 25 decimal degrees (1/4 th of a circle) be? You could rewrite the entire trig tables and publish them. Klotzian Algebra!
What would your scientific calculator be like?
Mosey   

[steamer]

It would make PI far less useful....now wouldnt it?

Dave

[steamer]

Maybe not so bad....15.91 degrees/radian...certainly more cumbersome.....and don't forget the degrees are 1.8 times bigger for the same angle....what could go wrong?

Dave

[mklotz]

The French, bless their little, confused hearts, at the end of the revolution introduced decimal time - ten "hour" day with each hour consisting of 100 "minutes" or some such.  The whole thing was a resounding failure.  Nevertheless, if you should run across a decimal clock in an antique store, buy it at any price.  Only a very few were produced and they're worth a fortune.

Oh, and to forestall any future dumb comments, please note that this abortive foray into decimal time had nothing to do with the metric system.  Contrary to the average American's notion, not everything decimal is part of the metric system.

[Tennessee Whiskey]

To use a well coined phrase; " it is what is ". You can crack it into as many segments that fit the bill, however, it IT is what IT is, a whole.

Whiskey

[Maryak]

I'd hate to think of the resulting confusion if the No. of degrees in a circle was changed. Sailors, for all their faults, were the 1st to agree internationally that 1 knot = 1 nautical mile = 1 minute of latitude at the equator. If the French had gone East West instead of North South then the meter would be even longer than it is. Prior to 1970 1 NM = 6080 ft - 1853 metres. Now the agreed standard for 1 NM = 1852 metres or 6076 ft.

Because degrees of Latitude are taken from the earths centre the minute of Latitude does not vary. Longtitude degrees are taken from the poles so minutes of Longtitude get smaller as you move North or South from the equator.

A cable is 1/10th of a nautical mile. It was, ( in my time), generally taken as 600ft. So all those fancy terms such as take station alongside 1 cable to port of me had some practical meaning. Except for refuelling the minimum distance apart, for ships in company, was 1/2 cable but usually 1 - 2 cables.

The English foot is still a recognised measure of an aircraft's altitude.

Brought to you at no extra charge from Bob's Glossary of Useless Knowledge.

Best Regards
Bob

[NickG]

In ballistics and gunnery we use mils
Which is almost a milli radian but not quite - 6400 in a full circle!

In excel use degtorad( or radtodeg( to covert.

[Admiral_dk]

In ballistics and gunnery we use mils
Which is almost a milli radian but not quite - 6400 in a full circle!

Uh - Oh .... not good for me .... I've been doing PCB (Printed Circuit Board) layout for most of my life - though not for a living the last many years - and there a mill or mills plural are 1"/1000 = 0.001". This all started with the first IC's having 1"/10 = .1" = 2.54mm. as the between pin centre or the drill distance. So when I started doing PCB layouts professionally some 15 years later, all data was in mills, pin diameter, trace with etc.

I can't remember the correct Danish term for what NickG calls mils, but when explaining such a compass to non users, we call them Military Degrees.

[NickG]

I've only heard them called 'gunner mils' but sure there's probably a more correct term!

[tangler]

I noticed a disturbing trend amongst my younger scientific colleagues to refer to millimetres as mils, thus providing scope for even more confusion with our transatlantic friends who refer to thous as mils - not that the youngsters have any idea what a thou is.  It all makes life interesting

Rod

[Mosey]

or read an analog clock.
Mosey

[mklotz]

1 knot = 1 nautical mile

Want to try that one again, Bob?  A knot is one nautical mile per hour, a unit of speed, not distance.  With a naval background, I know you know that but let's not confuse the landlubbers.

All these relations between angle and distance are based on the assumption that the earth is a perfect sphere.  [The real figure of the earth is an oblate spheroid.]  The circumference at the equator is 24900 miles.  The polar circumference is 24860 miles.

There are 360 * 60 = 21600 arc minutes in a circle.  If we assume that one arc minute subtends a distance of one nautical mile (6076.12 ft) the calculated circumference becomes:

21600 * 6076.12 / 5280 = 24857 miles

which is close enough to the measured circumferences to make the approximation useful.

Bob has pointed out the annoying fact that the length of a minute of longitude decreases as one approaches the poles.  However, the 1 arcmin = 1 nautical mile approximation remains valid on any great circle route (a circle whose plane passes through the center of the earth).  Since great circles are the shortest distance between two points on earth they're frequently the path sailed by ships.  As such the approximation is very useful.

[steamer]

I noticed a disturbing trend amongst my younger scientific colleagues to refer to millimetres as mils, thus providing scope for even more confusion with our transatlantic friends who refer to thous as mils - not that the youngsters have any idea what a thou is.  It all makes life interesting

Rod

To say nothing of "tenths"...( 1 "tenth" = 1/10000")  which is bantered around all the time....on this side of the pond...amoungst Engineers and Machinists....it's a lock.....beyond that,    over here anyway......glazed looks only...

Dave

[mklotz]

What about the numerous folks on this and other fora who refer to 0.001" as "thousands" rather than thousandths?  [Which they then measure with their "guages".]

[sco]

A possible 'excuse' might be that in order for them to be that cheap they must pay their workers very poorly 

[Admiral_dk]

I forgot to mention that Mills in the electronic world originates in Silicon Valley California - so it isn't an European confusion added to the mix.
Most if not all new electronic components, connectors etc. are in millimeters in the datasheets, with the weird consequence of the EU influence being that all new mechanical componets like connectors + discrete componets are in easy millimeter fractions and the IC's are in easy fractions of Mills (.001") - still influenced from Silicon Valley.

Googling "compass 6400" gave as first hit : http://www.compassdude.com/compass-units.shtml

And it's even worse than I thought - Mils are 6000, 6283 and 6400 to a circle, depending on witch military we're talking about 

+ I totally forgot what my father learned me as a kid, but the unit 6400 to a circle on a compass are called Mils here in Scandinavia too 

To say nothing of "tenths"...( 1 "tenth" = 1/10000")  which is bantered around all the time....on this side of the pond...amongst Engineers and Machinists....it's a lock.....beyond that,    over here anyway......glazed looks only...

I wondered about that one on these pages too    but has accepted the text members has provided.

[Maryak]

Want to try that one again, Bob?  A knot is one nautical mile per hour, a unit of speed, not distance.  With a naval background, I know you know that but let's not confuse the landlubbers.

Bob has pointed out the annoying fact that the length of a minute of longitude decreases as one approaches the poles.  However, the 1 arcmin = 1 nautical mile approximation remains valid on any great circle route (a circle whose plane passes through the center of the earth).  Since great circles are the shortest distance between two points on earth they're frequently the path sailed by ships.  As such the approximation is very useful.

Thanks for the correction Marv.

Great Circle routes are only contemplated when the distance to be traveled >1500NM and there is nothing in the way such as reefs, islands and the like. I would think they are ideal for long distance air travel.

Best Regards
Bob

[Tin Falcon]

You are a bad influence Marv . I just went to the dollar tree and spent five whole dollars of my hard earned  tool fund for a hand full of these calculators.

And if we travel 201.16800 meters at a rate of 0.514444444 m / s. how long does it take ?   knot furlong !!

Tin

[Alan Haisley]

What about the numerous folks on this and other fora who refer to 0.001" as "thousands" rather than thousandths?  [Which they then measure with their "guages".]

Marv, they are afraid people will think they lisp.
Alan

[Alan Haisley]

Want to try that one again, Bob?  A knot is one nautical mile per hour, a unit of speed, not distance.  With a naval background, I know you know that but let's not confuse the landlubbers.

Bob has pointed out the annoying fact that the length of a minute of longitude decreases as one approaches the poles.  However, the 1 arcmin = 1 nautical mile approximation remains valid on any great circle route (a circle whose plane passes through the center of the earth).  Since great circles are the shortest distance between two points on earth they're frequently the path sailed by ships.  As such the approximation is very useful.

Don´t knots predate clocks? Something about trailing a knotted line with a piece of wood (a log?) and counting knots while the sand runs out.
Alan

Thanks for the correction Marv.

Great Circle routes are only contemplated when the distance to be traveled >1500NM and there is nothing in the way such as reefs, islands and the like. I would think they are ideal for long distance air travel.

Best Regards
Bob

[mklotz]

What about the numerous folks on this and other fora who refer to 0.001" as "thousands" rather than thousandths?  [Which they then measure with their "guages".]

Marv, they are afraid people will think they lisp.

What are they afraid of when they use expressions like:

It runs real good.
Where it's at.

[Captain Jerry]

I know this is not a navigation topic but since it turned that way it is worth saying that the shortest distance, even with detours around obstacles like reefs and land mass, is almost never the fastest trip.  There are at least two factors that are more important. Three if you want to include politics.

Care to guess?

Hint: AC/DC

Jerry

[Dan Rowe]

Hi Jerry,
I was in the black gang...the only time I saw charts on a regular basis was to make paper gaskets from the out of date ones, but it is my understanding that after departure the ship generally traveled a great circle across the pond. The exception to the rule was weather routing, nothing like a big storm to make life interesting.

AC/DC yep I sailed with both types of sparks.

Dan

Edit: I forgot about the sailboat that we rescued the crew from near the Canary Islands that was an emergency course correction. I have also been at the throttle for a Williamson turn to recover a man overboard.

[MuellerNick]

Hint: AC/DC

If there is smoke on the water?
Oh no, that was someone else.


Nick

[mklotz]

Regardless of how short the distance to the next waypoint, the minimum distance path (geodesic) to it is still a portion of a great circle.

[Captain Jerry]

Yeah, Dan.  Weather is probably #1 for short term planning, particularly if you are sailing.  For long term planning, currents, both AC and DC, play a big part.  A course change that adds 50 miles to the trip is worth doing if you can pick up 6 knots of speed (fuel free)!

Ocean currents are mostly DC but inland currents are generally AC.   Leaving Jacksonville at the wrong time of day can add hours and dollars to get to the ocean.

Did you ever hear a transcontinental pilot come on and say " We've been cleared to alter course a little so we can pickup the jet stream, so we may be arriving in Baltimore about a half hour ahead of time."  He is not thinking about your schedule, he is thinking fuel savings.

Jerry

[Lew Hartswick]

What are they afraid of when they use expressions like:

It runs real good.
Where it's at.

They are afraid people will think they went to school.  At least a recent one. :-(
   ...lew...

[mklotz]

What are they afraid of when they use expressions like:

It runs real good.
Where it's at.

They are afraid people will think they went to school.  At least a recent one. :-(

That's not too far from the mark, Lew.  I know a number of people who think using correct English will make people think they're being "uppity".  Sadly, they want to trumpet their ignorance, and not just in English, so they can "fit into" the sad society in which they move.

[Tin Falcon]

Amazing when we think about it the first production calculators (electronic) calculators were  $99.99   and IIRC  a unmat lathe was            $ 199.99 .and another $100 for the mill conversion parts.

These super scientific one dollar calculator are great. but where is my two or 3 dollar lathe ????

crazy even the humble chines  7 x 12s are around $ 600.

Tin

[Captain Jerry]

A redneck friend of mine, an ex-marine with a PhD in physics was attending Harvard on a scholarship. He tells the story of walking across the campus on his first day.  Needing directions, he stopped an upper class man and said, "Can you tell me where the registrar's office is at?"  The upper class response was, "Of course, if you could ask without ending your sentence with a preposition".  My friend replied "Let me rephrase that then. 'Can you tell me where the registrar's office is, A$$hole?' "

Jerry