USS Massachusetts and other museum ships

[steamer]

I went to Battleship Cove Museum in Fall River Massachusetts today...the last time I was there was in 1988!......

I took my twin kids this time..Here's some photo's....The engine room of DD850   "Joseph P. Kennedy" was awesome...my son loved it...but I got to admit....I know it would not have been any fun under way!.....Talk about packed in!


















And some of the Massachusetts.   Her Turbines brought steam in at 600 psi ...850 F and exhausted at 3/4 psi absolute and 90F  !\






And  a Russian Missile Corvette....Russian Salors are far smaller than my kids because they had trouble going up and down the companionways!...I had to "conform"...but I almost could go through them


And the USS Lionfish...a WWII US sub.    It was actually roomy compared to the Russian Corvette!



And two US PT boats of WWII...here's a packard V12 on display


Dave

[steamer]

Climbing into the 16" turret on "Big Mamie" was really cool....my son took some video...I'll get it posted if anyone is interested.

Dave

[ths]

Glad you had a good day, would love to see some video.

Hugh.

[derekwarner]

Dave says...... "Climbing into the 16" turret on "Big Mamie" was really cool" .............I understand Dave....many years ago whilst at my work place I had the privilege  of inspecting the port side casement house of the FWD turret on BB63 when she was here for our RAN 75th Naval Centenary..............also stood on the quarter deck where the  bronze plaque is inlaid on the deck planking.....

Words cannot express the enormity of the 16"mounts @ 4,500 tons each compared to 4,700 tons of a complete FFG...................... Derek

 

[Maryak]

Hi Dave,

Glad you had a great day

As you've gathered not a lot of room in warship machinery spaces and as you've also gathered USN ships have far more room than similar ships from other Navies. The engine room lower plates on the English type 12's were a hands and knees job for me and I was 6ft, built like a match with the wood scraped off. Big guys had real problems down there and also round the back of the boilers where I went sideways to fit through. I'm sure, on reflection, they were designed for guys 3ft tall with 8ft arms.

Best Regards
Bob

[steamer]

The sub was fine...I just had a tough time with the compartment hatches...1 foot in turn around, back through, and other leg out...no worries....

But that Russian ship...WOW...Down the companionway,,,I had my arms over my head backing down the ladder with my hips on the rails and my head up against the hatch hinges....I mean NO WAY could I get out of there in a hurry!...felt like I was climbing into a suit case!....funny thing is once you got through...the compartments were fairly roomy!.....just not the same level of build quality...cheaper.

The machinery space in the Kennedy was almost as tight...except I know damn well how hot those surfaces were in use!....I dare say quite dangerous.

The HP and LP turbines are geared to a common reduction gear...so It's tight...plumbing and machinery...and climbing over that in a seaway with a "tin can" that was infamous for being a pig when the conditions were rough...YUCK....life was hard for sure!....even without the burned forearms!

Dave

[steamer]

The engine room on the Massachusetts on the other hand was spacious!....commodious!....YOU got ROOM!..

Would have loved to work that room!

Dave

[steamer]

Dave says...... "Climbing into the 16" turret on "Big Mamie" was really cool" .............I understand Dave....many years ago whilst at my work place I had the pleasure of inspecting the port side casement house of the FWD turret on BB63 when she was here for our RAN 75th Naval Centenary..............also stood on the quarter deck where the  bronze plaque is inlaid on the deck planking.....

Words cannot express the enormity of the 16"mounts @ 4,500 tons each compared to 4,700 tons of a complete FFG...................... Derek

I hear ya Derek...they had the remains of the exploded shell from the "Jean Bart" ...it went through 5 or 6 decks and exploded in an empty powder magazine....I recall there was one fatality...and the "Jean Bart" was destroyed in the action...but the mangled shell...about 10" or so was dwarfed by the 16" shells in the Barbette...just thinking of those coming at you at 2500-3000 ft/second....Yikes!

Dave

[steamer]

The shell that hit the Massachusetts during the action at Casablanca

http://www.flickr.com/photos/itinerant_wanderer/5091744140/

[b.lindsey]

Great pictures Dave. Sounds like a great outing!!

Bill

[ChooChooMike]

One of the 4 engine rooms of the USS Midway is open for tours. I sweet-talked my way into some of the closed areas of the engine room, very cool !! I also groveled till I got a private tour of one of the 12 "firerooms" (boiler rooms) as they are called on a carrier.  Very interesting !!! Yes, kinda cramped and I read that it gets upwards of 120+ degrees in there and the men (kids really) manning the boilers had to pull short shifts so as not to get heatstroke.

I'm an engine room tour guide on the SS Lane Victory - a fully operational WWII Victory-class cargo ship based in San Pedro, CA (Los Angeles). So I'm quite familiar with it's engine room It also has a cross-compound steam turbine engine with HP and LP turbines. They are much smaller then the ones on a carrier, but operational principle is the same. Also has 2 boilers compared to the 12 on the Midway. Hard to compare the scale of the ships since most of the Midway's engine-related areas are blocked off into separate rooms - probably for structural and fire safety.

Mike

[Maryak]

Probably the main reason for the separate compartments is Watertight Integrity. A hole in one means you don't lose the lot in one hit so to speak and can still keep going. Carriers are very susceptible to loss of the ability to retrieve aircraft with only minor alterations to list and trim, so small compartments make this harder to happen. They are also fitted with rapid flood tanks to try and straighten them up to catch the birds.

e.g. a small carrier like Melbourne, on which I spent a couple of years, more than 3⁰ of pitch and we stopped flying because we could not retrieve as the stern was moving up and down by some 20' and the bow by some 30', (great for shooting them off but if they have nowhere to go not such a good idea).

Best Regards
Bob

[steamer]

One of the 4 engine rooms of the USS Midway is open for tours. I sweet-talked my way into some of the closed areas of the engine room, very cool !! I also groveled till I got a private tour of one of the 12 "firerooms" (boiler rooms) as they are called on a carrier.  Very interesting !!! Yes, kinda cramped and I read that it gets upwards of 120+ degrees in there and the men (kids really) manning the boilers had to pull short shifts so as not to get heatstroke.

I'm an engine room tour guide on the SS Lane Victory - a fully operational WWII Victory-class cargo ship based in San Pedro, CA (Los Angeles). So I'm quite familiar with it's engine room It also has a cross-compound steam turbine engine with HP and LP turbines. They are much smaller then the ones on a carrier, but operational principle is the same. Also has 2 boilers compared to the 12 on the Midway. Hard to compare the scale of the ships since most of the Midway's engine-related areas are blocked off into separate rooms - probably for structural and fire safety.

Mike

Hey Mike,

Thanks for the nice comments!....Yes it could get that hot in there....and remember...most "modern" steam plant had steam above 600 psi and generally, a lot of superheat.  Some of the "tin cans" were running 750 psi, 900F....or more.

Not a place to grab just any old piece of equipment....even with insulation!....EVERYTHING gets hot.

Probably the main reason for the separate compartments is Watertight Integrity. A hole in one means you don't lose the lot in one hit so to speak and can still keep going. Carriers are very susceptible to loss of the ability to retrieve aircraft with only minor alterations to list and trim, so small compartments make this harder to happen. They are also fitted with rapid flood tanks to try and straighten them up to catch the birds.

e.g. a small carrier like Melbourne, on which I spent a couple of years, more than 3⁰ of pitch and we stopped flying because we could not retrieve as the stern was moving up and down by some 20' and the bow by some 30', (great for shooting them off but if they have nowhere to go not such a good idea).

Best Regards
Bob

Didn't know you were on carriers Bob!....cool!.....damn dangerous job to be flight deck crew!

Dave

[Maryak]

Didn't know you were on carriers Bob!....cool!.....damn dangerous job to be flight deck crew!

Dave

You got that bit right, I still have very vivid memories of an arrestor wire joining us in the arrestor control sponson just after the aircraft went past with the port landing wheel chewing itself apart on the edge of the deck and covering us in hot rubber. Said wire then proceeded to carve its' way through an avgas filter about 18" in front of me. Fortunately the knuckle which joins the main reeve to the centre span, (the bit that actually catches the aircraft hook), hit the avgas filter an almighty bang and threw the wire back up on the deck. The aircraft was waved off but the gung ho birdie decided he could make it. The aircrew, the flight deck crew and all concerned said enough for one day and promptly retired for a shower and a change of underwear. That's sort of what you get when trying to retrieve at the limits of both ship and aircraft...........just another day at the office.

Best Regards
Bob

[Tennessee Whiskey]

G'day Matey! First off how are the new peepers working in the welding dept? Now, for the real sh$t. I am kinda a " lost soul" over that little " police action" and " support mission" that our good old boys got us into in SE Asia. I missed it by a few (very) years, however if it had worked out time wise I would have been the Ranger, Airborne, re-up, don't send me home type. I was smart enough at my age in time, that I knew our soldiers had been cheated and lied to and I was ashamed at the way our country at home was reacting. I'm probably the first Douglas to never wear a uniform and in 1978 when I had the chance I just couldn't do it. I've had friends big brothers lost there, I've worked side by side with men who were "still there" and I've read and studied it (gotta cousin who's a full bird) in after action reports. Ok I'm rambling,but, first of all in every account I've read our troops had nothing but praise for the professionalism and bravery of of the Aussies. And now after following you here I can see why. My Friend, thank you. Now, let's chew up some metal

Yo Redneck,
Eric

[Maryak]

G'day Matey! First off how are the new peepers working in the welding dept?

Yo Redneck,
Eric

Eric thanks for the kind words but when you've got nowhere to run to, you just gotta sh1t and pray on the spot. Bravery is the guys in the jungle with their life on their back and I take my hat off to all who ventured into that environment.

The new peepers are great, I did a cast iron repair job on a small casting a mate of mine dropped off his bench, amazing what you can do when you can SEEEEEE 

Best Regards
Bob

[ChooChooMike]

I took my twin kids this time..Here's some photo's....The engine room of DD850   "Joseph P. Kennedy" was awesome...my son loved it...but I got to admit....I know it would not have been any fun under way!.....Talk about packed in!

Those boilers/steam drum wouldn't have any of the pictures plastic panels/seats in place, everything is exposed.

That lathe is shoehorned in ! Doubt it could ever get out again without taking it apart !

And some of the Massachusetts.   Her Turbines brought steam in at 600 psi ...850 F and exhausted at 3/4 psi absolute and 90F

Amazing how much the steam pressure is reduced from HP to LP and into the condenser at < 1 psi as you noted.

Lane Victory's turbines are about 440-ish psi out to HP turbine (don't remember what superheat temp is) and 1-2 psi (or less) into the condenser.

Not a place to grab just any old piece of equipment....even with insulation!....EVERYTHING gets hot.

You got that right ! Thankfully the Victory's engine rooms are not overly cramped (Liberty ship's engine room are pretty sparse too), but lots of hot pipes to be careful of !! The cool (no pun intended ...) thing about the Victory/Liberty ship's engine room is that everything is pretty much in the same room (2 levels) and you can just about see all the machinery within a few steps. Gives a better sense of the overall picture of all the steam ship's machinery.

I'm in amazement at how much engineering goes into steam plants to wring out as much efficiency as possible, just fascinating to me !!

Mike

[steamer]

Yup...haven't run anything that high...my boat is 160 psig...saturated.....and that's plenty hot enough for me.

Dave

[Maryak]

Hi Guys,

My avatar ran at 1200psig, 1000⁰F and exhausted at 28"Hg vacuum. The turbine sets were configured HP, IP inline on one shaft with Contra flow LP and Astern on the other into a double reduction gearbox. At 220srpm the HP stopped exhausting into the IP and a second set of nozzles supplied the IP direct with both HP and IP exhausting in parallel to the LP at this point the ship was moving around 25 knots and only 3 more knots before the next 2 of the 4 boilers were required to get up to full power, 70,000shp.

IMHO they were without a doubt the best steam ships of that size, (4,500 tons) in the world. Our 3 of the class were all built by Defoe Shipbuilding Co. in Bay City Michigan.

Best Regards
Bob

[steamer]

Wow!....what was flank speed on that Bob?

Dave

[Maryak]

Around 36knots dependent on sea state, atmospheric conditions, sea water temperature etc.

A few facts

Fuel use 36 tons per hour. Fuel capacity 930 tons, fresh/boiler water capacity 56 tons. The crew drank boiler water they only got fresh when the evaporators played up and we dumped contaminated boiler water as in too much salt, into the fresh water tanks).
4 x Foster Wheeler closed front D type boilers 1200psig 1000⁰F Superheat, fitted with Foster Wheeler air operated Automatic Combustion Control Systems.
Fuel delivery by spill burner at 1000psig with a spill pressure of 350psig 4 burners per boiler
Air pressure at furnace front 63" water gauge. 2 blowers per boiler
Feed pump delivery pressure 1600psig.

4 x 500Kw GE self condensing generators
2 x 40 ton per day flash evaporators using exhaust steam from auxiliaries as heating medium.
2 x 130 Kw Cummins emergency diesel generators.

2 x GE main turbine engines 35000 shp, each driving a 4 bladed 14ft dia by 16ft pitch propeller at around 320rpm


Best Regards
Bob

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jivOCDahCc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jivOCDahCc</a>

[steamer]

Thanks Bob!...

Dave

[derekwarner]

Bob......I worked on all three DDG's..... [TIC430 in above water weapons]....we lifted off the first GLMS13 in Australia under the hammer head crane.........also supervised on the 5"54 mounts

Spent 38 hours without sleep on HMAS Hobart post a GID refit off JB [issues with the GMLS13]  .....very interesting having lunch in the PO's mess & hearing/feeling the whine of #2 turbine increase   

Standing on the bridge....could not believe the dB rating when 51 was firing  ...my woosh bang was relatively quiet in comparison..... Derek

[Maryak]

Hi Derek,

My cabin was on the port side opposite the PO's mess and the main steam pipe for the port engine was right under my feet. My favourite song was "Knock 3 times on the ceiling if you want me." 

Best Regards
Bob

[ChooChooMike]

Fuel use 36 tons per hour. Fuel capacity 930 tons

That's only about 25-26 steaming hours ? Is the right ? Of course highly dependent on speed/load. Think it'd be quite a bit more, else you'd be refueling every few days ??  Or is/was that the norm ?

Mike

[Maryak]

Fuel use 36 tons per hour. Fuel capacity 930 tons

That's only about 25-26 steaming hours ? Is the right ? Of course highly dependent on speed/load. Think it'd be quite a bit more, else you'd be refueling every few days ??  Or is/was that the norm ?

Mike

Hi Mike,

That figure is a full power. Knock off 2 boilers which brings it back to 18 tph then come back again to economical cruising speed and you get between 60 and 80 tons per day. As an aside just to keep the lights on and the airconditioning running was 1 ton per hour without going anywhere.

We could just make Sydney to Pearl Harbour on 600tons. This was max  peacetime allowable range and still left us with a reserve of 30%. Start using more and you had to start ballasting as the ship was then approaching neutral equilibrium. Easy to get the sea into the fuel tanks but a right royal pain in the posterior to get it out again.

Best Regards
Bob

[Maryak]

Just a bit of a follow up on my last post..............Why 60 - 80 tons per day..................Well the RAN very rarely goes anywhere in a straight line except when it has to, such as inside the  Great Barrier Reef. The dog watches from 16:00 to 20:00 are when all the Captain Wannabe's get driving instructions so the ship goes all over the place dropping boats and picking them up again. Practicing man overboard by bringing the ship to a stop alongside a wooden crate, and then we all get to take a few pot shots at the crate with small arms training. Fire a torpedo with a practice head, chase it around till it stops and then bring it back on board. In those days there was no GPS and Loran was only in the Northern Hemisphere. The navigators were at the top of their game to at least have some idea where we were.

That's when your on your own. If your in company with other ships you get to play Nelson by steaming line ahead then line abreast and any other dashing fleet manoeuvres the senior Captain could dream up. Most times it was an absolute no no to make any smoke but once we were told to actually make smoke and go hide behind it before a simulated torpedo attack. The old ships actually had a make smoke valve fitted to the burners which took cold oil before the heaters and supplied it direct. That stuff more or less rolled out of the funnel and fell into the ocean complete with big globs of unburned fuel.

Life was never boring and why I ever resigned is one of life's great mysteries.

Best Regards
Bob

[IanR]

Practicing man overboard by bringing the ship to a stop alongside a wooden crate, and then we all get to take a few pot shots at the crate with small arms training.

Must remember not to fall off one of your ships.