Author Topic: Revised UK Boiler Regulations  (Read 21575 times)

Offline SandCam

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Revised UK Boiler Regulations
« on: April 18, 2013, 11:59:41 AM »
Hi All,

For those of you that may not be aware... there has been a new set of boiler regulations applicable for UK members.

These became effective on 1st January 2013 and the main point which will affect you will be that there is no longer any EXEMPTION for boiler of 3Bar-Litre or under.

In effect, it now means ALL boilers require both a pressure test certificate and a steam test certificate to be eligible for insurance and use in a public place.

I attach a copy of the new regulations for those that require them.

Sorry for the BAD NEWS... but I don't make the rules. :shrug:

Best regards.

Sandy. :cheers:


Edit... these new rules are freely available for download on the Internet so there is no copyright issue here.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 12:05:02 PM by SandCam »

Bogstandard

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Re: Revised UK Boiler Regulations
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2013, 12:22:44 PM »
Many thanks for the info Sandy. I suppose the Victorian minded MPBA had something to do with it.

A lot of people will now be put off running small live steam engines.

This does affect people in the UK rather seriously.

A public place can even mean your own workshop or garden. If it is only you that is in the shop or any other place, then fine, but if anyone else is in there with you when you run up your boiler, you MUST have all the regulations and insurance in place.
Most local councils now require at least £5,000,000 insurance cover for live steam.

At least we had a fair few years before elfin safety got on the bandwagon (again).

John

Bluechip

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Re: Revised UK Boiler Regulations
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2013, 12:36:22 PM »
Does this bit of nonsense cover pressure cookers too??  ::)

'Cos mine is somewhat over that limit.

Ah well! I could always slink off to B&Q, buy an aspidistra to live in it ...  :thinking:

Dave BC

Bogstandard

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Re: Revised UK Boiler Regulations
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2013, 01:25:04 PM »
Dave,

You wouldn't believe the amount of idiots who try to run a steam engine off a pressure cooker. I think a few of them have had their heads in the cooker, while it has been steamin'.

John

Offline Lofty76

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Re: Revised UK Boiler Regulations
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2013, 08:52:25 AM »
Please see section 14 re the testing of small boilers:

14.1 For the purposes of this Test Code ‘small boilers’ are defined as
those with a pressure-volume product below 3 bar litres.
Examination and test of this type of boiler is applicable if the boiler
is fitted with (as a minimum requirement) a safety valve and a
pressure gauge. The boiler may also be fitted with a water level
gauge and a mechanical method of pumping water in to the boiler
whilst under working pressure. If no means of supplying water to
the boiler whilst working is present the fuel supply shall be so
arranged that it is used up before the water is completely used.

Re pressure cookers, most have a maximum operating pressure of 15 psi (103KPa) and hold considerably less than 3 litres of water even with say a 6 litre capacity, (just checked our Prestige and its rated at 83 KPa and 6 Litre capacity - do NOT add more than 50% water).

So if operated in accordance with manufacturers instructions would NOT require a pressure test.

Lofty
« Last Edit: April 28, 2013, 09:13:54 AM by Lofty76 »

Offline Jasonb

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Re: Revised UK Boiler Regulations
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2013, 09:20:40 AM »
Lofty for boiler testing purposes the capasity is taken when the container is brimmed not the working water level. You would not opperate an engine boiler filled to the brim due to priming but that is how the bar/lts is measured

Offline hammer

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Re: Revised UK Boiler Regulations
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2013, 12:28:40 PM »
Yes total capacity not to exceed 3 bar/litres. I read  :happyreader: that the rules are not retrospective.  So my question is, my Cheddar plant still has a small amount of gas left when the water level is down to the bottom of the gauge. Is this now illegal??  I always sail less than 20 minutes so I never reach that point.

Offline Lofty76

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Re: Revised UK Boiler Regulations
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2013, 12:33:15 PM »
Good point Jason, It WAS a bit early for this.

I'll refer it back to the HSE.

Just a quick point though, would the pressure cooker be used in a public place, be fitted with a pressure gauge, a water level indicator and have some means of regulating the fuel supply?

I still don't think it qualifys under PSSR2000, (although some new coffee machines do in public places)

« Last Edit: April 28, 2013, 01:02:17 PM by Lofty76 »

Offline SandCam

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Re: Revised UK Boiler Regulations
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2013, 01:44:31 PM »
 :thinking: :facepalm2: :facepalm:

Hi Guys,

Just to eliminate any misunderstanding: -

Pressure cookers are NOT covered by the UK boiler regulations I posted above.
They are specific to small pressure vessels as normally used for model engineering.

Pressure cookers are 'Domestic Appliances' and they fall under the normal EU and UK pressure regulations: -

Pressure Equipment Regulations 1999. (PER).

Pressure Systems Safety Regulations 2000.

BS EN 12778:2002

EN 30-1-1, EN 60335-1, IEC 60335-1:1991, EN 60335-2-15, IEC 60335-2-15:1995, EN 12983-1:2000, 97/23/EC, ISO/IEC Guide 37:1995.

All manufacturers of pressure cookers MUST comply with the above specifications before they are allowed to sell their products in the EU (which includes the UK).
There is no requirement for a user of a pressure cooker (The purchaser) to submit their product for any pressure testing.

Any product returned to a service area, or to the manufacturer, for repair would need to be re-tested following the repair... but this is a burden placed on the repairer/manufacturer as part of the regulations... not the consumer.

EDIT... Any use of a pressure cooker which falls outside of the manufacturers specified use would constitute a breach of the certification and thus would leave the user liable for any damages (to public and/or property).

The model boiler code I posted was derived from the above, specifically for model engineering and is applicable ONLY to the UK.

Hammer: -

Quote
So my question is, my Cheddar plant still has a small amount of gas left when the water level is down to the bottom of the gauge. Is this now illegal??  I always sail less than 20 minutes so I never reach that point.

The new rules are not retrospective to existing 'Certified' plant but will apply when your current certificates expire.

This would normally be the annual steam certificate but it could also include the Hydro certificate if the 4 year period has expired.

If you do not have any means of replenishing the boiler water (whilst under pressure) then YES... the new rules would make it illegal if there was any gas left when the water level got to the lowest level.
The fact that you only sail for 20 minutes is of no consequence as far as the regulations are concerned.

Time to fit a Goodall Valve: -

http://www.dreamsteam.co.uk/mss-mamod-upgrade-parts/goodall-water-top-up-valve.html

Or a small hand-pump with a non-return valve.

Hope that clears things up a little.

Best regards,

Sandy.  :cheers:
« Last Edit: April 28, 2013, 01:56:04 PM by SandCam »

Offline Jasonb

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Re: Revised UK Boiler Regulations
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2013, 02:42:51 PM »
Or a smaller gas tank

BTW the gas tank will also need to be tested and certified

Offline steamer

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Re: Revised UK Boiler Regulations
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2013, 03:15:53 PM »
I'd like to know who's going to be doing all these inspections?.....Sounds expensive!

Dave
"Mister M'Andrew, don't you think steam spoils romance at sea?"
Damned ijjit!

Offline S.D.L.

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Re: Revised UK Boiler Regulations
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2013, 06:22:07 PM »
I'd like to know who's going to be doing all these inspections?.....Sounds expensive!

Dave

The club boiler inspetors, this is a revised code for the inspection of boilers. Has been done for years by most clubs. In UK

Steve
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You always get what you always got.

Offline hammer

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Re: Revised UK Boiler Regulations
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2013, 09:16:28 PM »
Thank you Sandy. Well I have taken out the steam plant from one paddle steamer & gone electric. I am thinking the Cheddar plant in the other will have to go as well.   

Offline derekwarner

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Re: Revised UK Boiler Regulations
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2013, 11:44:00 PM »
hammer & bogstandard ......this SandCam member............ :atcomputer:

Back in 2005... on another WEB site we had a member ***-engineering@wargyll.fsnet.co.uk   from a funny sounding named place in Scotland......."Lochgilphead" & he wrote notes  :happyreader: & taught many lessons on all things steam.......  :noidea: ....I am suspecting this is the same person

Lets see if he remembers me......Derek  :shrug:
Derek L Warner - Honorary Secretary [Retired]
Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op - Australia
www.ils.org.au

Offline steamer

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Re: Revised UK Boiler Regulations
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2013, 02:47:40 AM »
I'd like to know who's going to be doing all these inspections?.....Sounds expensive!

Dave

The club boiler inspetors, this is a revised code for the inspection of boilers. Has been done for years by most clubs. In UK

Steve

Thanks for that Steve!....When you get a chance, please post a introductory post in the Introduce yourself section

Thanks,

Dave
"Mister M'Andrew, don't you think steam spoils romance at sea?"
Damned ijjit!

fcheslop

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Re: Revised UK Boiler Regulations
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2013, 10:22:23 PM »
Oh dear another loop hole closed and as already mentioned I wonder how much influence the MPBA had.

Offline ths

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Revised UK Boiler Regulations
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2013, 08:11:31 AM »
What interest might the MPBA have in the boiler issue. Are they a 'difficult' organisation?

Hugh.

Offline Firebird

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Re: Revised UK Boiler Regulations
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2013, 08:56:51 PM »
Hi

Oh well it looks like I will have to play with my steam engines all alone in my shed, don't bother me much though I'm in a world of my own out there.

How long will it be before they ban videos of steam engines :lolb:

Cheers

Rich

Offline dsquire

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Re: Revised UK Boiler Regulations
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2013, 09:25:12 PM »
Hi

Oh well it looks like I will have to play with my steam engines all alone in my shed, don't bother me much though I'm in a world of my own out there.

How long will it be before they ban videos of steam engines :lolb:

Cheers

Rich

Rich

Don't give them any ideas. They can come up with enough stupid ones on their own.

Cheers  :cheers:

Don
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Offline SandCam

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Re: Revised UK Boiler Regulations
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2013, 03:05:45 PM »
 :lolb: :ROFL:

Quote
hammer & bogstandard ......this SandCam member............

Back in 2005... on another WEB site we had a member ***-engineering@wargyll.fsnet.co.uk   from a funny sounding named place in Scotland......."Lochgilphead" & he wrote notes   & taught many lessons on all things steam.......   ....I am suspecting this is the same person

Lets see if he remembers me......Derek 

Well now, :LittleDevil:
It's kind of hard to FORGET a raving Aussie of DUBIOUS IRISH origin, especially one who lives in a very suspicious named place WOOLONGONG and parades around playing a cheap Fender Telecaster. :Jester: :whoohoo:

Just kidding Derek, good to see you on here.
How are things going?...and I trust the family are all keeping well.
Have you finished that DECOY yet?
or are you coming over to the DARK SIDE with a lathe etc?

I don't think you need to worry about the latest regs, they are not as bad as they first appear.

For the rest of you guy's... the reference to the MPBA, perhaps, having some influence stems from the fact that they ALWAYS disregarded the general engineering codes and insisted on using there own, which was much more severe.
They Never adopted the BAR/LITRE rules and insisted ALL boilers (used in public, on any of their waters) had to be Hydro tested every 2 years and Steam tested every 1 year.
NO-EXCEPTIONS.
This latest code appears to have gone part way towards the MPBA (Draconian) methods, albeit not quite as far.

The MPBA are still using their own code.

I doubt they have had any influence over the new code, since they were never party to it, or the previous editions, in the first place, and are still not, so I am sure they will continue to go their own way regardless.
It does make things far more complicated for model builders here in the UK, especially those that build model steam boats and who's local club is affiliated to the MPBA, since they would then be subject to the MPBA rules when it became time for boiler testing.

The MPBA argue that it is a criteria of their insurance which dictates their rules... this stance is a little odd though... since their insurer is one of those listed as being PARTY to the new rules as posted.

Or is this a case of insurers applying DOUBLE STANDARDS?...

All very frustrating for everyone concerned.

Best regards.

SandCam.(aka, SandyC or AlexC):cheers: :LittleAngel:








Offline Heffalump

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Re: Revised UK Boiler Regulations
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2014, 04:26:22 PM »
I really don't like thread necro's but I figured as this was still on page 1 there was no point starting a new thread!

Can I just get some confirmation - If I want to make a small boiler to power my model engine, am I expected to have it inspected and then buy insurance?

fcheslop

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Re: Revised UK Boiler Regulations
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2014, 05:06:24 PM »
I believe that is the case.
 

Offline tangler

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Re: Revised UK Boiler Regulations
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2014, 05:24:20 PM »

Can I just get some confirmation - If I want to make a small boiler to power my model engine, am I expected to have it inspected and then buy insurance?

I really don't think so in the UK.  You can do what you will in the privacy of your own home.  However, if you wish to run your model at a show, exhibition or a club track/ lake then the organisers will need to be assured that your boiler is safe and fit for purpose.  The organisers will have an insurance policy to cover mishaps and the insurers will have agreed a boiler inspection regime with the governing body covering your particular branch of the hobby.

Please correct me if I'm wrong...

Rod

Online Jo

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Re: Revised UK Boiler Regulations
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2014, 06:58:11 PM »
How small is small? My club started testing the boilers on the spirit/gas fired G1 loco's and after an initial grumbling all involved are actually pleased that it is done. And I have my coal fired G1 boilers tested.

Personally I would always test a boiler even if I was only using at home for the safety of my nearest and dearest. Public use means approved boiler inspections and insurance. If you are a member of a club then you will get free boiler inspections and their insurance will cover you at their events  ;).

If you take out your own insurance it will also cover against theft

Jo
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fcheslop

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Re: Revised UK Boiler Regulations
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2014, 09:33:45 PM »
Personally,I try and build to the code and test annually and scrap them at ten years old. Most of my boilers are small and of the simple pot type so theres no great expense involved in replacing them.
A thing to remember even our dearest and nearest maybe swayed by a large pay out if an accident should happen and they became injured due to some incompetence on the builders part be that design,manufacture or maintenance .
I think it can become an rather emotive subject and some feel that the code is a thing to got round instead of a thing to be embraced.
An argument often put forward is that our small model boiler are low pressure and can do little harm hmmmmmmmm
Have a look at whats left of a coffe machine that runs at 1.2bar after a material failure
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fnews%2Farticle-1311946%2FSainsburys-coffee-explosion-injures-7-caf.html&ei=OSMiU-LrNYiIhQeT4YDQCA&usg=AFQjCNEs6C1Qpu21GR6_B49TXlbuEOkCMQ&sig2=V2q74OpdVHVl926IO181ig&bvm=bv.62922401,d.ZG4
Iv posted this before and been accused of scare mongering .

Its youre decision
cheers

 

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Revised UK Boiler Regulations
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2014, 09:35:40 PM »
and scrap them

 :o Gasp. Surely retirement is a better option.
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Offline K.B.C

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Re: Revised UK Boiler Regulations
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2014, 10:27:51 PM »
Personally,I try and build to the code and test annually and scrap them at ten years old. Most of my boilers are small and of the simple pot type so theres no great expense involved in replacing them.
A thing to remember even our dearest and nearest maybe swayed by a large pay out if an accident should happen and they became injured due to some incompetence on the builders part be that design,manufacture or maintenance .
I think it can become an rather emotive subject and some feel that the code is a thing to got round instead of a thing to be embraced.
An argument often put forward is that our small model boiler are low pressure and can do little harm hmmmmmmmm
Have a look at whats left of a coffe machine that runs at 1.2bar after a material failure
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fnews%2Farticle-1311946%2FSainsburys-coffee-explosion-injures-7-caf.html&ei=OSMiU-LrNYiIhQeT4YDQCA&usg=AFQjCNEs6C1Qpu21GR6_B49TXlbuEOkCMQ&sig2=V2q74OpdVHVl926IO181ig&bvm=bv.62922401,d.ZG4
Iv posted this before and been accused of scare mongering .

Its your decision
cheers


It looks like a piece of modern art, last seen in the Tate Gallery with a 1mil price tag !!!!

Pressure vessels are not to be trifled with but treated with due respect, hence we have the boiler regs in place for operating steam boilers in club or public places to comply with a clubs public liability.

Frazer, thanks for the reminder.

George.
Your never too old to learn.

fcheslop

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Re: Revised UK Boiler Regulations
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2014, 10:28:01 PM »
Sorry Zee , they are put to the hammer :ThumbsUp: so that they can never end up on flea bay.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2014, 10:37:02 PM by fcheslop »

 

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