Author Topic: Shay Locomotive  (Read 55614 times)

Offline Dan Rowe

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Re: Shay Locomotive
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2012, 03:35:31 PM »
I am making forward progress on this project. The end timber braces will be attached to the bottom end of the frame rails and the end timbers. The last photo in the previous post shows the location of the braces.

The end timber braces are different on the Dulong and the Mapleton. The old forged braces were replaced with a steel casting by the time the Mapleton was built. I made a pattern for a casting but I was not happy with it and rubber molds are not the best for holding close tolerances. I decided to have a go at machining the brace.

I chose some true wrought iron as it is easy to machine and I just like working old iron. The piece I used had spent over 50 years as part of a boat house on lake Michigan and I suspect that was not the first use.

Here is the stock in the chuck to bore a 1/2" hole.


I do not have a DRO on my mill so I added mill stops to the X axis to make milling a pocket simpler. I have a set of round gauge blocks tapped 1/4-28 so I tapped the ends of the stops for the same thread.


This is the setup to mill the pocket with a 1/8" ball mill. The coaxial indicator located the 1/2" hole and the other indicator is to calculate the backlash on the y axis.


This photo shows the original stock with very heavy rust. Notice the fracture section which really shows the grain structure of wrought iron.


I used sacrificial backers to mill the braces to length. The web section is 0.055" and most likely would have taken the light cuts but I hate taking chances.


The milling is complete and the parts are ready to be cut in two sections.


Here is the full set of end timber braces ready to be drilled for the frame and the timbers. They are not steel castings but I like the way they look.


Dan
« Last Edit: August 12, 2012, 08:49:40 PM by Dan Rowe »
ShaylocoDan

Offline steamer

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Re: Shay Locomotive
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2012, 03:43:12 PM »
Nice set up Dan,  I like the stop blocks from gage blocks trick,,,,those were originally made for that application.

Dave
"Mister M'Andrew, don't you think steam spoils romance at sea?"
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Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Shay Locomotive
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2012, 04:26:11 PM »
I just finished reading the thread. Fascinating.
Looking forward to seeing more.
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Offline Dan Rowe

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Re: Shay Locomotive
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2012, 08:55:26 PM »
Zee thanks for the support. Dave nice to know that. I am working on a Y stop using a micrometer head I just got cheep. I liked the way you did that with the file roller.


I finished the frame timber braces. They needed a spot face for the bolts. The scale hole size worked out to 0.059" which works really good for a 0-80 bolt.


I made a drill guide to drill the rivet holes for the timber brace and the frame at the same time. The guide needed clearance for the radius so I used a small center drill to mill the slot and the clearance at the same time.



I worked myself into a bit of a corner as I have already added the running board brackets to the first frame. Well I forgot the hose brackets on the left side. Most Shays were equipped with a siphon that is a steam educator to pump water from a near by water source. The siphon was used on the Mapleton Tramway and several photos show the hose and one shows water being pumped from a line side tank.

It took me a while to come up with a solution and it was a tiny rivet press. The body of the press is 1/4" steel, and the screw is a 8-32. The gap in the press was cut after the hole was blind tapped for the bottom die. The upper section of the bottom die has a 5/64" hex so it can be installed with a nut driver. I tapped a small section of aluminum round to hold the screw and bottom die for machining. I used another screw to lock the bottom die in the holder. The pointed screw in the holder was used to mark the high and low point of operation of the press to check for tool clearance. The hose bracket was attached flat and rolled for the hose after it was attached.



Dan
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Offline Dan Rowe

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Re: Shay Locomotive
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2012, 08:53:30 PM »
I got a bit of shop time for painting. The top frame is the Mapleton and the bottom frame is the Dulong.

I really hate to paint but I had to get to it sometime.

Dan
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Offline Tin Falcon

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Re: Shay Locomotive
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2012, 09:19:53 PM »
Here are a couple of pics of the Shay @ Rough and Tumble Museum in Kinzers PA






I am toying with the Idea of getting the early Kozo Shay book but I need the motivation  and dedication for such a project. Looks like good progress on yours.

Tin

Offline Dan Rowe

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Re: Shay Locomotive
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2012, 09:42:25 PM »
Hi Tin,
You most likely already know that the photos are a replica of a Shay. It has a Soule twin for a steam engine. Here is one of the engines.

Kozo's first Shay is a good choice and I considered that build but I located the sources of Lima Locomotive Works drawings and I decided to attempt a miniature scale version.

Dan
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Offline Tin Falcon

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Re: Shay Locomotive
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2012, 11:11:43 PM »
I am no expert on shays I am not even a locomotive guy at least not yet. I do like the little shay at Kinzer. I did buy a Kozo A-3 switcher book. but the more I think or it the more I like the shay and since I tend to display models @ R & T if I a going to build a loco a shay would be an appropriated one. And one close to old No 4.
I do know that shays were built for 67 years during that time the company changed hands 4 times there were 4 different classes of shay. I also expect that these were not exactly mass produced and Each one has its own detail and character built in at the factory and later modified buy the owner(s). and changes made during restorations. So there is an opportunity to copy no 4 or use a little creativity. this is not a project I expect to start soon . but I may consider building the engine and feed pump that could be a good start. and a bit more doable in the short term.
Lots of shay info here .
http://www.shaylocomotives.com/
Tin

Offline Dan Rowe

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Re: Shay Locomotive
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2012, 11:33:50 PM »
Hi Tin,
I am not going to say I am a Shay expert either. I do have enough Lima paper records to paper the whole house at least 4 times by my calculation a few years back... I mentioned that to my wife and she said "Tell me something I don't know you big idiot"

I was one of the original helpers on the Shaylocomotives.com site and I worked with the mechanical database compiled by George Kadelak and checked it with the Lima records for data accuracy.

All this was good fun and a real education on the Lima drafting office system but that does not get an engine built and I decided to move on.

Some folks might remember my mention of a 1/5 scale Shay but I have dropped out of that project to focus on what is on my workbench.

Dan
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Offline Dan Rowe

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Re: Shay Locomotive
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2012, 11:21:54 PM »
I am making headway on reassembly of the frames after painting them.

The Mapleton end timbers are nearly complete. I have to cast up the push pole pockets and add them. The Mapleton end timbers are not typical Shay construction. The L angle stiffners were not normally used. The Dulong end timbers when complete will show the typical Shay construction.



My new plan for the carriage bolts is to use 1.2mm nickle silver optical screws. They come with a cheese head with no slot. I just rivet the heads and trim to length. I was using 3/64" steel rivets that I was threading 00-90... that was a lot of work for not really satisfying results.

The nickle silver 1.2mm nuts are 2.2mm AF which is a bit large for a 1.2mm bolt. I made a test mandrel to see if it was simple to cut them down to 5/64" using my 24 pin 5C indexer. This worked so I made a mandrel with matching 3/16" hex ends. The flat on the top matches the key on my 3/16" hex collet which has points up when the indexer is at zero. I drilled a hole so I could install a replaceable 1.2mm screw to mount the nut. The other bit in the photo is a hex file button to reduce the nuts with a file. That works fine but it is slow and after I dropped the third one never to be seen again  :wallbang: I needed a new method.



Here is a photo of my small bolt choices.
Top-- 12 BA the bolt head is 2.5mm and larger than the BA standard.
Second--00-90 brass bolt with 5/64" hex.
Third--1.2mm optical screw with 2.2mm nut.
Fourth--1.2mm optical screw with riveted head and 5/64" nut.
Fifth--1.2mm brass with 5/64" nut
Sixth--3/64" steel rivet with 00-90 thread
Bottom--1.2mm shop made bolt with 5/64" hex head and 5/64" square nut.


I am using a small press to rivet the heads of the optical screws. The scrws are 9/16" long so I drilled a 1.2mm hole in a 1/2" block of steel. To eject the finished screw I just press the die on a flat hard surface an screw pops out.


Here are some fancy jewelry items that have 1.2mm threaded holes. There is all sorts of studs available including skulls and spiders.


Dan
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Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Shay Locomotive
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2012, 11:36:21 PM »
Really looks good.

And, I got an idea for shortening my bolts to size. Don't know why. But thanks!
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Offline Dan Rowe

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Re: Shay Locomotive
« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2013, 07:02:10 PM »
I have made a bit of progress on this project. I have nearly all of the frame castings done so that section is nearly complete.

I made the push pole pocket and the frame brace pad from metal so a rubber mold is a one step process to get castings. Here are the Mapleton push pole castings and the frame brace pads.



With more complex parts I usually start with wax and cast a metal pattern. Here are the patterns for the steam jamb and old style push pole pockets for the Dulong, brake rods and the boiler pad clamp.



Here are the machine steps for the boiler pad clamps. The casting has a cored hole that is drilled to tap 0-80. Then it can be bolted the fixture shown in the center. The sprue is trimmed and the top is faced in the mill.



The final step is to drill the rest of the holes.



Here are the steps to machine the frame brace pads. They are for the smokebox brace. The sprue end was chucked up and a light cut to true up the spud was made. The part was reversed and the sprue/chucking piece was cut true and the back side of the flange faced. Light cuts with a sharp tool are the order of the day. And remember which way to turn the hand wheels I stuffed one with a senior moment.



The final lathe operation is to face the spud and tap it 1-72. Cut off the sprue and file the back was the final operation not shown.

The chucking piece I left on the smaller push pole pocket did not really center well with a scroll chuck so I chopped it off and used the 4 jaw chuck. I used the back edge of a tool holder to center the flat sides of the casting.


I set the hand wheels to zero after centering the first casting and it was simple to quickly set the other castings square for the machine work. I used a small end mill in the tailstock to cut the counter bore but as it starts on an angled surface slow feed is needed until it makes a full cut.

The old style push pole pocket has a square hole for a square head bolt. I used a section of the same steel square square stock that was used for a core and drilled a hole in the center. This was used as a drill guide to for the hole. I used a thin section of plywood and drilled for the sprue and the four pins on the back. The sprue extends past the plywood and is clamped in the vise.



Here is a shot of the new parts for both the Dulong and the Mapleton. I am missing one of the boiler pad clamps but I only intend to add the clamp that has a common rivet with one of the running board brackets. The other boiler pad clamps will be located when the boiler is installed.



Dan
« Last Edit: January 05, 2013, 07:06:32 PM by Dan Rowe »
ShaylocoDan

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Shay Locomotive
« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2013, 07:42:44 PM »
Looks like good progress.
Glad to see you back at it.
Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you'.
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Zee-Another Thread Trasher.

Offline steamer

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Re: Shay Locomotive
« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2013, 11:57:49 PM »
That looks great Dan...I've read accounts of the horrible accidents that have occured with the use of "polling pockets",  I'm glad these beautiful castings are for a model!

Dave
"Mister M'Andrew, don't you think steam spoils romance at sea?"
Damned ijjit!

Offline Dan Rowe

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Re: Shay Locomotive
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2013, 01:44:10 AM »
Yeah Dave I hear you....jousting with a locomotive what could possibly go wrong?? :lolb:

 :cheers:

Dan
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