Hasbrouck #7 Double Size.

[VANYA]

I can to the mathematics but just have to get the brain around how it all fits together and the interaction between all the components etc.

Steam is different to electrical theory and what I have come across in other hobbies. That is why I want to build an engine rather than just buy one off ebay or the like. The learning is in the doing and that in my opinion is why young people do not even know how things work these days.

I am here to learn from you and thank you all for your help and input.

Is it easier to work backwards, that is from the propeller back to wards what engine needs to drive it, what approx hull speed we want to acheive and then the boiler size to supply the steam??

Does anyone know the HP output of the Stuart #4 ??

Am I doing this project the correct way ??

I know from my correspondance with a steam canoe builder that the Stuart #4 is a marginal engine for his application considering the slighly larger boat I want to propel. The thought of a boiler and engine arrangement balancing in a boat like an Indian Canoe with a beam of 26 inches with all the hot stuff close buy does not appeal so much. I want more beam and a lower C.G for stability.

 My weight is 140lb
 Boiler approx should come in at about 55lb
 Engine about 25lb
 My estimate of the boat is 200lb

Total somewhere about 500lb all up weight.

What sort or power should i look for in the drive system??

Thanks

VANYA

[steamer]

So many good questions!

I spent a couple of years working all that out for my boat...

You need

1 HP / 1000 pounds displacement to get to hull speed effectively....with real wind and real current...the dead calm day never ever is
If you want a big traditional canopy...put in more!

Expected speed.

1.2 x Square root ( waterline length in feet) = hull speed in knots....it takes exponentially more power the faster you try to go past hull speed.  How "fine" the hull is...and the wetted area...have secondary effects.

So with a suitable steamboat hull...it is suggested to have a long sleek hull   with a beam to length ratio of between 4- preferably 6 to 1.

My boat is 25 feet long has a 5 foot beam.  ( L/B =5)

My boat is 1600 pounds all up and has about 2.4 HP at the shaft @ 550 rpm with 165 psi steam.

The speed you turn and the power you generate will dictate the prop required...My boat has a 16 x 18 pitch 3  blade prop that has been faired and set with razor sharp leading edges ....it's pretty efficient.

A 12 x 16....guestimate...would work for the 1 HP engine @ 400 rpm...with 35% slip....you get 16 x (1-.35) x 400 = 4160 inches/minute or about 347 feet/minute or about 4 mph or about 3.5 knots


That would jive with a 9 foot waterline length minimum....so an 11 foot canoe should probably have a bit more pitch and a bit less diameter....

A great pair of books to get are
"From my old boatshop" by Weston Farmer

and

Steamboats and Modern Steam Launches.

David Gerr's "Boat Strength"

"The new cold molded boat building" by Reuel Parker....GREAT BOOK...lots of great practical advise.

"Gougeon Brothers on Boat Construction".....its the modern boat building bible.

And a couple of dozen others.


Dave


 

[ths]

Gougeon Brothers free download here:

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/assets/HowTo-Publications/GougeonBook%20061205.pdf

Looks good!

Hugh.

[steamer]

....and not cheap.    But it pays to get the best....especially after what you put into a boat in time and materials.

Dave

[VANYA]

Steamer,

Thank you for your indepth mathematical description.

I was thinking  about 11.5 feet. You mention Reuel Parker, I have already been in  contact with him and he has given me his thoughts on a craft that he designed for a steamboat builder who is building a 24 footer. Reuel publishes a nice 13 and 15 foot version with a fine entry bow and a fantail stern in single chine construction. Would make a nice first boat and simple method with maybe stitch and glue construction.

Like engines of 1 HP, there seems few boats designs too in the 12 foot length. Guess steamers just like taking there friends for a sail. That will come later for me I hope.


I will look out for the books.

Once again thanks for all the help.

Hayden

[steamer]

I saw that boat!....but I had built mine already.

Mine is based on a sketch of a boat called "Panatella"...I then spent a good deal of time widening it 5 feet, and changeing the entrance and the stern...it's more double ender now.

I performed all the stability calculations , and even built a test tank model to confirm the stability numbers before I built my boat.

I'm a big boy...and I can jump up and down on the gunnel amidships ...she's very stable.

That 24 footer is sweet....I'd go for it!

Dave

[VANYA]

Dave,

A 24 footer is a BIG boat.

I am a small fella and only displace 130lb's, and I can fit into model size models almost.

There is a building blog of the guy building the Reuel Parker steam launch it looks a good craft to get afloat with.

When I get time I will post the link for the French Steam Canoe. I can tell you it is a real canoe, a fibreglass one.

With regard to the engine I was wanting a self starting, fwd/Reverse model so which Hasbrouck would you recommend as the best option. Considering I have a set of drawings to hand for the #5 but it is a double cylinder model and will consume a but more steam.

Thanks.

Hayden

[RonGinger]

24 footer is a BIG boat.

I am a small fella and only displace 130lb's, and I can fit into model size models almost.

And 11.5 ft is a TINY boat. My 17ft was barely big enough for one guy to operate. I have used a 12 ft canoe in camping, and with just me and some gear it was barely adequate. And remember, the waves and wind are not scaled to your choice of boat. You will not be comfortable using an 11.5 ft boat on any water larger than a swimming pool.

Many years ago, at least 30,  a friend and I got the idea that we wanted steam canoes. I was a good deal more flexible then and it seemed like a good idea. We choose the stuart turner #1 for engine, and designed and build a suitable boiler. My friend was a welder, so he did two boilers, I built 2 engines and we traded. We both got smart before we invested all the work in the canoes, and my engine and boiler still sit on shelves in the shop.

Can you post a link to that Reuel Parker steam launch blog, I would like to see it. Boat building was my major interest before machining. 

I remember another guy that wanted to build a small steam boat, and I twisted his arm a bit and he saw the light and did a fine boat, remember Dave 

[steamer]

24 footer is a BIG boat.

I am a small fella and only displace 130lb's, and I can fit into model size models almost.

And 11.5 ft is a TINY boat. My 17ft was barely big enough for one guy to operate. I have used a 12 ft canoe in camping, and with just me and some gear it was barely adequate. And remember, the waves and wind are not scaled to your choice of boat. You will not be comfortable using an 11.5 ft boat on any water larger than a swimming pool.

Many years ago, at least 30,  a friend and I got the idea that we wanted steam canoes. I was a good deal more flexible then and it seemed like a good idea. We choose the stuart turner #1 for engine, and designed and build a suitable boiler. My friend was a welder, so he did two boilers, I built 2 engines and we traded. We both got smart before we invested all the work in the canoes, and my engine and boiler still sit on shelves in the shop.

Can you post a link to that Reuel Parker steam launch blog, I would like to see it. Boat building was my major interest before machining. 

I remember another guy that wanted to build a small steam boat, and I twisted his arm a bit and he saw the light and did a fine boat, remember Dave 

Sir!  Yes Sir!

 

Vanya,

Do what you want to....I've seen steamboats smaller than 11.5'  ...the "Seagrape" comes to mind...but they are not really pleasant or that useful.

My friend Will and I wanted to take my boat out for one last fall cruise a couple of years back.....Oct 31st!.....The next day the trailer registration would expire, and well...it would be over for the winter....

So we went down to this little lake....maybe a mile or so across....
As we got there, the weather really picked up and it started to blow....we said  Ahhh no problem! ..it's a little lake!....

 

As soon as we got out of the inlet we launched on, we rode right into 3 foot chop and 40mph winds....which on a little boat....was not particularly pleasant!...I could keep her into the wind just fine...but I had to stoke  like crazy!....I only have 2HP or so...right?...so fuel was getting burned WAY faster than I anticipated.

Well, the waves were breaking up to the foredeck level and the spray got my friend drenched! ....I don't mind saying it was getting a bit scary...I mean we could have probably swam to shore from where we were as we were only about 150 away from the beach...but I didn't want to end up on a rock...or lose the boat....eventually I got her turned about ...which taking broadsides from the chop was OK for the boat as it is highly stable...but don't stand up or the snap roll would through you out of the boat....we brought her back into the cove...and struggled with the port turn into the dock...which with an oar and some blue air we got to.

Having a large rudder was very good thing  as I could keep the boat pointed down wind as the stern wanted to broach...but I could steer her straight as she ran down the waves...

We got her back on the trailer...and I took her home...I later heard that other boats had worse luck...

In any case....excrement occurs! as they say in the trade....and my family goes into that boat...so I'm glad I built her 25 feet  instead of 16-20 like I originally planned.....Ron can give you some feed back on the "Norman-D" which was 16 1/2 feet....


Dave

[VANYA]

I know 11-12 feet is a small boat.

I am still in the research phase of the project at present. Absolutly nothing is designed or built so don't panic.

You may twist my arms yet and all information is considered.

I do have available to me a clinker replica hull for a 16 x 6 footer for a Stuart 5A. In the UK Steam Boat Assocaiation Register it is listed and named Kathleen from New Zealand.

Hayden

[steamer]

16 x 6 is not too bad.....but more than 1HP I think.

Dave

[steamer]

Ron,

I think I saw that boat on Parker's site...but it's not there now.   I know he has a lot more plans than he shows there though, and I doubt a steam launch is a popular request

If you contact him, I bet you could get a side elevation ...

Dave

[VANYA]

I do have a bit of a plan and side elevation drawing already and with the construction photos on the blog site sort of know how it would fit together.

As for the 16 x 6 boat it is designed for a Stuart 5A, the exact engine I have the castings and drawing for. I can also buy the fibre glass hull mould for $400.

[steamer]

If the hull is clean and "fair", and you want a steamboat...go for it.

You'll pay 3 times that amount in just epoxy to build a boat.

Dave

[VANYA]

This link below should get you to the pages of the Reuel Parker Victorian styled steam launch under construction.

It has been recently updated.

http://steamlaunchiona.blogspot.co.nz

Hayden