Author Topic: Surface finish  (Read 13198 times)

Arbalest

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Surface finish
« on: March 02, 2013, 03:55:31 PM »

Offline Chris J

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Re: Surface finish
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2013, 04:44:19 PM »
Tbh I find the photos a little difficult to view.
They seem a bit dark.

Could be handy though.
Don't believe everything you read on the internet - Abraham Lincoln.

Offline wheeltapper

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Re: Surface finish
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2013, 04:48:06 PM »
I've made a tool like that and it gives a lovely finish.
used properly the swarf comes off like cobwebs.

theres nothing new under the sun tho, L C Mason describes a tool like that in my 1963 edition of 'Using the small lathe'.

Roy.
I used to be confused, now I just don't know.

Arbalest

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Re: Surface finish
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2013, 05:08:52 PM »
I've made a tool like that and it gives a lovely finish.
used properly the swarf comes off like cobwebs.
Roy.

Ok Roy, I'll make one then!

Offline Chris J

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Re: Surface finish
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2013, 05:17:43 PM »
I've made a tool like that and it gives a lovely finish.
used properly the swarf comes off like cobwebs.
Roy.

Ok Roy, I'll make one then!

Great, I'll follow this.
It might help decipher what is required.
Don't believe everything you read on the internet - Abraham Lincoln.

Arbalest

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Re: Surface finish
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2013, 09:34:22 PM »
I wasn't offering a tutorial Chris!   :slap:  Seeing as you've "volunteered" me though  :???: what do you need?  Photo's? Video?  ;D  As it's only 2 degrees in my workshop at the moment though I won't be going out there for a while!  :Jester:

Offline Chris J

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Re: Surface finish
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2013, 09:49:58 PM »
I wasn't offering a tutorial Chris!   :slap:  Seeing as you've "volunteered" me though  :???: what do you need?  Photo's? Video?  ;D  As it's only 2 degrees in my workshop at the moment though I won't be going out there for a while!  :Jester:

Come on, you can  take a few simple pictures and 200 words or so on each step along the way  :LittleDevil:
Don't believe everything you read on the internet - Abraham Lincoln.

Offline joegib

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Re: Surface finish
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2013, 05:52:52 PM »
I've made a tool like that and it gives a lovely finish.
used properly the swarf comes off like cobwebs.

theres nothing new under the sun tho, L C Mason describes a tool like that in my 1963 edition of 'Using the small lathe'.

Roy.

Yup. Words and music here:



Mason's version employs a round toolbit but the cutting principle's the same.

Joe

Offline Dan Rowe

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Re: Surface finish
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2013, 05:59:10 PM »
This type of finish tool can also be used with a shaper.
http://www.neme-s.org/shapers/columns/shaper_column_43.html

Dan
ShaylocoDan

Offline Chris J

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Re: Surface finish
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2013, 07:00:49 PM »
I've made a tool like that and it gives a lovely finish.
used properly the swarf comes off like cobwebs.

theres nothing new under the sun tho, L C Mason describes a tool like that in my 1963 edition of 'Using the small lathe'.

Roy.

Yup. Words and music here:.......

Mason's version employs a round toolbit but the cutting principle's the same.

Joe

I wonder about the similarities with the Diamond Tool Cutter or Tangential tool
Don't believe everything you read on the internet - Abraham Lincoln.

Offline Chris J

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Re: Surface finish
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2013, 07:05:46 PM »
This type of finish tool can also be used with a shaper.
http://www.neme-s.org/shapers/columns/shaper_column_43.html

Dan

Great site, thanks

Here is the Bridgeport page

http://www.neme-s.org/shapers/bridgeport.html
Don't believe everything you read on the internet - Abraham Lincoln.

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Surface finish
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2013, 07:25:25 PM »
Very interesting thread.
I really need to start learning to make my own cutting tools.
Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you'.
"To work. To work."
Zee-Another Thread Trasher.

Goldstar31

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Re: Surface finish
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2013, 08:34:55 PM »
We are missing the point because there are TWO issues!

The first is the actual removal of large quantities of metal and the second is 'fine finishing'.
I think that there is plenty written about 'hacking' great chunks down to nearly size but what of this finish- the stuff that people look at. The rough turnings are the things in the waste but really lathes in a professional context, do this. Finishing and to size is something that is done- on a grinder.

What we- as amateurs are trying to do is doing it all on on a lathe.- and some of us are trying to do it with one tool. Rudely, and the Best of British Luck, mate!

If you want to do what the old turners did is to go back to what they recorded. None of this rubbish about this and that new gadget. The old boys 'honed' tools and used lathes that were pretty similar to what is rolling out of China today. What they could do was make a constructive effort to do the last bit of the work- on tools that were razor sharp. They didn't use Carbides or even high speed steel. They used carbon steel.

What did they achieve? Well, if it comes to the evaluation, can many of us flog a metal turning turning lathe to an Arab oil baron? The old boys could flog a lathe to a Tsar of Russia or some Clown Prince at a price of perhaps a street of houses. Go get a price for an old Holzapffel or Evans ornamental turning lathe- with all the goodies and have a hell of an awakening.

So how did these old men sharpen their tools? Merely with what some call a goniometer or goniostat which is a simple jig to sharpen a carbon tool on a bit of cast iron or glass or better still, on a piece of lead with progressively finer grades of abrasive which they crushed - and graded themselves.

OK, is this all written down and not some old bloke talking about some long lost black art.  Holzapffel wrote it all down and it is still on the net.

The diagrams are still there. Mine are on the book  shelf. One bloke recently sort of tarted up - and simplified a goniostat. It was a bloke called Conrad Hoffman and on advanced tool sharpening. If you have something like an old hockey puck and a bit of plate glass- you get on with it.

And yes, Mr Hoffman got it right- not to buy a street of house but RIGHT enough.  Read it up- and be surprised

Offline Tennessee Whiskey

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Re: Surface finish
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2013, 10:45:57 PM »
While most of us are trying to do do this with one tool, we realize, we are not of the greatest generation as you are. Your generation did amazing things with nothing. We are in awe. However, in the scope of life in the 21st century some people maybe looking for a little more. We can buy some tooling on the " interweb" that will produce fantastic results, we can buy tooling that requires no grinding, we can access drawing in great detail,  and we got access to the whole world with a keystroke, this was provided to us by your generation, and, we're thankful! However, as much as machining is an exact science it is so far from it. Each machine is different, metal is different, the workers method is different. The results should be looked at as what is setting on the table . My grandaddy's brother told me one time:  I bet you were a real wheel horse in your day. ( I was bout 10). In everyones eyes they may have the answer and they may quote: but, set what ya know on the table.

fcheslop

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Re: Surface finish
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2013, 11:07:07 PM »
A lot or most of the manufactured tooling is designed for max speed max feed rates and for machines far more rigid than ours.
There is a lot to be gained by learning to make our own tooling either in HSS or Carbon steel as well as saving money you can tailor the bit to the job in hand
Have a look at the sites already mentioned and you will see variations of tooling that has been around for many years
I find or found that start of with the basics as shown in LC Masons book or Mr Sparey and if it don't cut the way you want or expect then play around with the angles of dangle its not a black art but at the same time some thing you need to practice at its the same hitting sizes you see people measuring to within tenths this must be worrying to new comers when really all that matters to us is that the parts fit together it doesn't simply matter if the bore is slightly bigger than drawn just make the piston fit  but Im digressing
The old KISS is a very good ethic you dont need loads of fangled equipment to make toys yes if you want to make money but not for toy making
Have a look at some of the past masters. I agree the drawings today are far better but some times wonder

 

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