The University of MEM

[Tennessee Whiskey]

Now I got to thinking ,us rednecks do that a lot ,about Steamer's dyno post. Thanks to our founding fathers here at MEM we have a " house of higher learning". Most of us here had some kind of machine knowledge or at least knew what a screwdriver was when we came here. Now, thanks to our great faculty we can all continue our machining education. And when I say faculty, I mean every member here. We all know if you want cut a gear or do some scraping, ask  Dave. Got some un-Godly math problem or want some polite but blunt outlook on something, ask Marv, can't decide what you want to do next or if you can do it, don't ask Zee(he can't either,but always does),need a simple fix to a complex setup, ask Bogs, want to know bout castings,screwing studs, or turning balls, ask Jo. If you want to build a hot rod Ford power train that you could hide in your Altoids box, ask George. If you need someone to talk you through the steps on accurate recreation, and do it in the manner of the most favorite shop teacher you ever had, ask Bill Lindsey. If you want to learn a few tips on casting, looks like Metalmad might be your man. Should you want to freshen up on the art posting a good build,complete with beautiful picys, check with Arnold and Dave Otto. I could go on all night, rednecks do that too. What I'm getting at  is we have an almost endless supply of knowledge here and every member can be student or teacher. Marv, that doesn't sound too much like Berkley does it? We can cut up in the hall, miss class, and chit-chat, but, we can still learn what we need when we need it. If real school had been this way, I'd spent 3 more years in the eleventh grade . Let's face it: we got it made at UMEM.  . Ok, who's buying the pizza and beer

Y'alls Redneck
Eric

[zeeprogrammer]

Wow. Pretty good summation of this forum. Lots of knowledge in many aspects of this hobby and, as you imply, lots of good people willing to share and teach.

I've apparently developed a reputation of being indecisive. Not so! It's actually a method I use to ensure I'm never wrong. It's not a perfect method mind you. Sometimes I'm wrong until I correct myself. Too often I'm right until I correct myself.

I gotta get a build going. Need to give Marv something to do.


P.S. I take it you're heeding the advice of your 'follower'?  No doorbell chimes after you get home?

[Maryak]

Eric,

Can't think of much to add to your post  except, (if my understanding of Redneck is correct), yours is now more of a pink colour 

Best Regards
Bob

[steamer]

The trick is...never stop being a student....really ...that is the key thing...

Chase that effort with allacrity...and you will do well....

Dave

[b.lindsey]

I like the UMEM idea Eric, and also fully agree with Dave...NEVER stop learning !!  Even for an old dog, I can usually pick up at least one new trick here every day...remembering them all may be another matter though  Many thanks to everyone who contributes to the collective wisdom of UMEM !!

Bill

[Jo]

want to know bout castings,screwing studs, or turning balls, ask Jo.

I see my reputation goes before me    I am going to have to branch out a little and find something different to do, or at least something different to do the same things on and hope no one notices

The day I stop learning will be the day they put the lid on the box...  now talking of castings: I never say no   

Jo

[gbritnell]

Hi Eric,
I wholeheartedly agree with your summation. The problem is most of us old timers will be fading away and I don't know where the kids will learn it from. I know quite a few of the fellows on the forum have learned this hobby from the ground up but that's a heck of a hard way to do it.
It sure would be nice if we weren't scattered all over the globe, that way we could visit with and learn from our peers.
At this point I would like to make a shout out to the fellow members that have certainly helped me. I don't want to get into specific name because they know who they are. Without their tremendous help some of my projects wouldn't have gotten of the drawing table.
Thanks guys,
George D. Britnell

[Mike OConnor]

Hello Eric,

Very insightful post. I couldn't agree more. There are so many talented people here from all over the globe. It is a privilege to be part of this community. Thanks to John (Bogs) for starting this forum.

I moved to Nashville four years ago after living in Western New York State my entire life and most times feel like I live on an island because I left all my machinist and toolmaker buddies up north. MEM fills that void, although I hope to meet some model engineers in this area someday. With 1.4 million people in our area, there must be more than the two of us.

I always enjoy reading your posts because of your great sense of humor. It is no wonder why your restaurant is such a success. I would bet that you know most of your regular customers by name. The next time I am driving north, once your repairs are completed, I will definitely make a detour and stop in Springfield for some of that famous BBQ and to say hello. Hope your restoration is progressing well. That was quite a storm. We were fortunate that it didn't cause the damage that it did north and east of us.

It is a good thing that Jo has a sense of humor as well. I laughed out loud when I read your line above.

Kind regards,
Mike

[mklotz]

Got some un-Godly math problem or want some polite but blunt outlook on something, ask Marv,

Polite!?  What the ....?  Where have I gone wrong? I'll work on fixing that.

And "blunt", what's that about?  Like Oscar Levant, the first thing I do in the morning is brush my teeth and sharpen my tongue.

You're right about the university thing, though.  But something important is missing.  Where are the cheerleaders?  Forget the football but we need cheerleaders.

[zeeprogrammer]

Where are the cheerleaders?

We have them.
Just as in football...if you're not playing, you're cheering.

If you're not building...you're cheering.
And players (builders) cheer too. 

[mklotz]

Where are the cheerleaders?

We have them.
Just as in football...if you're not playing, you're cheering.

Methinks you've missed the whole purpose of cheerleaders, Carl.  They aren't there to cheer.

[ScroungerLee]

Thanks for this post Mr. Red Neck, it is all quite true.  I just figured Zee would be our cheerleader due to his proclivities.

Lee

[b.lindsey]

Yeah, but Zee doesn't have the outfit for it....just that tutu

Bill

[Rayanth]

who do i turn to for trying to figure what the heck i'm doing as a clueless noobie with just a lathe and an itch to make something?

-- Rayanth

[Jo]

If you want to learn a lot by watching then I suggest Zee. You will learn a lot about luck, what happens when you are over enthusiastic in starting a job and in the end finishing up with something that everyone thinks is desirable

As for the itch I find buying tools, metal, castings and spending time in the workshop helps but in the end nothing ever cures it, once you have it it only gets worse. 

Jo

[b.lindsey]

Rayanth, as one of my old business school profs. used to say..."If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there!"  So taking first things first...what type of project interests you? Tooling? A simple first engine? Other?  Once you determine that we can narrow it down and I feel sure that a few if not many here will have done something similar and will be more than willing to help.

Bill

[chucketn]

Rayanth, where are you? Might be a member close enough and willing to let you look over his/her sholder. Marv, I think it depends on how you define "cheer". Do they have cheerleaders over the pond? I lived in the UK for 8 years and never saw one...

Chuck

[Dave Otto]

Hi Eric

Wow! to even be considered for inclusion in such a talented group of folks is quite an honer; thanks I'm not sure that I deserve it but but I do appreciate it.


Dave

[zeeprogrammer]

Yeah, but Zee doesn't have the outfit for it....just that tutu

'just' that tutu? That's not enough? I'm open to suggestions but won't listen to any.

If you want to learn a lot by watching then I suggest Zee. You will learn a lot about luck, what happens when you are over enthusiastic in starting a job and in the end finishing up with something that everyone thinks is desirable

Thanks, I think.  But thanks! 
My advice to those who would watch me...be willing to learn from my 'aw crap' moments. They are more frequent by far than my 'aha' moments. And many of my 'aha' moments aren't. But I enjoy the journey.



This is a fun forum and full of ideas and learning. Thank you all.

Marv..."Bricka bracka firecracka sis boom bah!" "Marv Klotz Marv Klotz" "Rah rah rah!"
Picture me in pink.

[Rayanth]

i live north of seattle in a town called Lake Stevens, znd work at the Boeing factory in the largest building in the world (by volume)...alas, my job has nothing to do with the machinery, and i can't just sneak in to learn, they require certifications which require classes taken on off-time at one of the local community colleges....who has time for that?

I'm interested in IC engines primarily, but probably wouldn't mind air-powered derivatives of the same type....Steam power scares me! My true passion is in radials, with the ultimate dream of building a scale R4360 Wasp Major (28 cyl/4bank radial) I have access to the exterior of one for measurements but have to largely guess at the internals for now.

I self-teach easily, but I think some 'proper' learning in setup would be beneficial, and determining the proper order of operations for a part....i suspect some of the latter just comes from experience.

-- Rayanth

[Tennessee Whiskey]

Thanks everyone for the warm response. I think I achieved what I intended with this post. The base of knowledge here is endless. Egos are non existence. If you need an answer, it's probably here in various ways to an end. Zee, I understand your thinking process completely, if you find all the wrong answers first all that is left has got to be correct, I think, well maybe, I'm not sure, what do y'all think? . Zee, google Hank Kimble- Green Acres. I think the three of us would make a good team. Our classroom encompasses the whole world. The build and tech info is great, but, admit it we all love the chatter box section just as much. I think we just enjoy sharing a part of our lives with each other, as real friends whom share a common interest do. And in reality we are doing the same thing Dave did with his son. We are teaching and learning in practical uses that makes learning fun. I believe in "The Six Degree of Separation" theory. If you don't know, Google it. OK, now that you know the theory, just imagine what our little classroom old misfits could accomplish . Marv, you haven't been as sharp tongued lately, I thought maybe you just were revisiting the '60's or maybe got the ex paid off. I still visit the '70's and I've only got 27 more payments on the ex George , I totally agree. In our high tech world we have forgotten that there still has to be some practical and manual labor and someone to teach it. I don't want to offend any of our IT family, cause we wouldn't be here without you. However, even y'all admit, someone's gotta know how to load a tool and for that matter know how to clean the shop afterwards. That's our desire here; to make our halls of learning open to anyone without regards creed or origin or age. . OK, I'm done preaching now, so, breakout the keg,hot wings, and CHEERLEADERS. I know I didn't acknowledge each of you replies, but the doorbells ringing: Ask Zee

Luv You'ns All
Yo Redneck
Eric

[Mike R]

My true passion is in radials, with the ultimate dream of building a scale R4360 Wasp Major (28 cyl/4bank radial) I have access to the exterior of one for measurements but have to largely guess at the internals for now.

Ah - bitten by the radial bug.  Thats me too. P&W Wasp Jr in 1/6th scale in progress (barely) and a 1/4 scale Wright Whirlwind casting set tucked under my bench for future entertainment.  My suggestion is to build some small, relatively simple projects (ie Elmer Verburg engines to run on compressed air)  to get your feet wet and just generally have some machine time before jumping in and attacking a big project (like I did).  I've now backtracked and am building some small engines, having fun and occasionally I tackle a part on my larger, long term project.

Mike

[Bogstandard]

I have been playing about with machinery for well over 40 years, getting on towards 50, but no matter what anyone thinks, I most probably only know less than 1% of what there is to know.

There is a secret to it all, look and listen. I will listen to anyone who is trying to teach me something, and I will tell you now, some of those teachers were no more than kids. EVERYONE has something to teach, it is just getting up the confidence to do it.

Common sense and logic are your greatest attributes.

I have a very well stocked workshop, purely from the fact I used to run a business and time was the main issue, but due to personal problems, that had to fall by the wayside. But even so, even though I do have all these things to help me, invariably, I always try to use the easiest methods and safe setups that can be used. So if anyone can understand what I am doing, then most people should be able to do it with the equipment they have, there is usually no need to go to great expense buying masses of tooling, as with just a little thought and common sense, most problems have many ways of being solved.
THERE IS ALWAYS MORE THAN ONE WAY TO DO THE JOB, just that some ways take a little longer than others, but hey, it isn't a competition to get things done here, just take your time and do the best you can, eventually things will start to fall into place for you and you will start to get very good results, much better than you ever thought possible. Then you can start to expand and take things a little more seriously, and maybe become a major contributor.

With regards to helping people who live nearby.

Up until about 18 months ago, I used to run an open workshop, where anyone with a problem could call and get help. It was very popular, even to the point where people would come down just for a coffee and a good gumbeating session. It is one of the best things you can do, and sometime in the near future, I will be opening up my shop again and hopefully people will start to gather here again.
It is OK showing how to do it on this site, but when it comes to learning, one to one is definitely the best.

Now just a little thing about posting.

There is a complete cross section of people on here, all wanting to chase their dreams, some are very experienced, others decidedly not.
So like when they used to use convoys, always go at the speed of the slowest ship.
Meaning, try to put yourself into the shoes of that new starter, and attempt to write your text with that person in mind. A few well chosen words can make that very complicated formula be understood by a lot more people.

I'm so sorry to have rambled on so much, but my lifes' goal now is to get as many people started in this hobby of ours, and hopefully sometime in the near future I can start to show what I get up to again.

But please remember one thing --- KISS

I think everyone now knows the meaning of that.

Good luck on your journeys.

John

[Rayanth]

Bogs, I have learned a ton from your posts on the other site, and a ton more from them here. In fact you're one of the reasons I decided to make the move - you've always explained things in a clear and easy to understand manner, and have never made anyone feel or look stupid for asking a question.

I understand there's more than one way to do things - one of my other hobbies is computer programming, where there is no 'right' way. But there ARE 'wrong' ways, and that's what I was hoping to learn from some schooling on setting up, and possibly deciding in what order to make cuts. Example: "Is it best to drill a hole before turning down a diameter?" There might be reasons that it is very wise to drill the hole first, perhaps to ensure concentricity. There may be reasons that it is unwise, perhaps because it might make the material too thin to be able to turn. Or maybe it would make it more difficult to get a clean parting off, if the hole is drilled first... I just don't know! I'm not afraid of learning by trial and error, but metal's not exactly free, so learning some of the very basics from others is preferable to wasting money on stupid mistakes for simply not knowing better.

I aim to start a post in the Oddball section soon, regarding my attempts to make things by just goofing around. I will ask for feedback there, and probably post a million questions a day, and that is how I will learn. I'm never afraid to try, but I am occasionally afraid of looking foolish for trying something that to an experienced eye 'obviously' wouldn't work.

Thanks again for all of the input, from all of the UMEM instructors and fellow students!

-- Rayanth

[Ramon Wilson]

I have been playing about with machinery for well over 40 years, getting on towards 50, but no matter what anyone thinks, I most probably only know less than 1% of what there is to know.
John

Hi Guy's

I couldn't agree more with all you've said John but particularly the quote above. We have a saying around these parts - usually aimed at those rather full of themselves - "What they know would fill a book - what they don't would fill a library". Somewhat caustic I agree but I do believe we should not lose sight of the fact that perhaps we should see ourselves in the same light.

Yesterday I had a little reminder of a very gratifying and eye opening ME experience that happened to me several years ago. I had visited my last place of work and called in to see my ME friend Gordon who lives close by. He is engaged in making the Croft Engine serialised in ME and there were a pile of them on the shelf including an old one - July 1953 to be precise. Picking it up I  noticed the reference to 'A Six Cylinder Petrol Engine and turned to it. It was by a Mr FW Waterton.

Around the early to mid nineties having got a fair way into the Bentley parts I met a local chap who was what you would call a truly dedicated model engineer, one Dick Knee - an ex marine engineer, his garage was fitted out like an old fashioned workshop everything driven by belts off line shafting and a one motor power source. Seeing the Bentley parts he said his friend Frank would like to see them and a visit was arranged. Sometime later we duly arrived at the home of Mr FW Waterton!

After the usual introductions and pleasantries Frank had on his dining table a work in progress and a pile of works drawings - a Saltzer diesel engine - it was either a six or eight cylinder which was being built from scratch. I do remember clearly each cylinder was starting out as blocks cut from 2" x 2" mild steel bar all milled from solid and bolted together in line. When I asked had he made any drawings to work to he quietly remarked that he was working direct from the works drawing scaling everything down as he went - a very impressive piece of work and given the size of some of the chunks of metal - all mild steel  - I naturally assumed some adequate kit to deal with it. Before we went out to the workshop I noticed the triple expansion engine on the mantel piece. Just as quietly he told how he had built that but didn't mention it had featured on the cover of ME, something I would discover much later. I think it stated that it was awarded a Gold Medal too but am not absolutely certain. If it had he certainly didn't mention it.

And then it was out to the workshop for the big surprise of the day. It was nothing more than the bricked off end of his garage quite small probably about 8' x 10' at the most and just a Boley lathe and pillar drill. The petrol engines were set up ready to run and I assumed this was perhaps a secondary workshop - no this was where it all happened. A lathe, a pillar drill and what he called his 'shaper mill'. I certainly don't recall any milling machine. Described in model Engineer at some time this shaper mill was a conversion of a small hand shaper to carry a milling spindle and this is what he was using to cut through that 2 x 2 BMS for his cylinders. Virtually everything was done on the lathe

He ran every engine - from 2 cylinder through four and six inline and his six and eight cylinder vees. All started and ran faultlessly and the noise was quite something on the larger ones. The workshop was soon filled with fumes as you can imagine.

It was a truly inspiring day to see what this quiet man had produced on such limited kit to such an exemplary standard and is something that, obviously, has remained with me to this day. You're so right John, though nice to have, an arsenal of kit is not exactly essential to participate in this great hobby - just the desire to create something - and no matter how simple. Personally I count myself fortunate to possess a Super 7 and my Linley mill but am never more humbled nor inspired than by the ingenuity of people who can produce anything in the face of the challenges that such limited means brings. 'Peatoluser's' Newnes engine is a classic example.

Frank lived quite some distance away and I never met him again but the memory of that day is something I won't forget. Sadly Frank, and Dick, are no longer with us.

Eric - Thanks for providing the opportunity to relate this tale. You are so right we all have something to offer each other no matter at what station in this hobby we stand at.

Regards to all - Ramon

[John S]

Workshop floors, or rather lack of them, I'm your man.

[ths]

Hi Ramon,

A humbling tale, teaching the right lesson.

Hugh.

[steamer]

Workshop floors, or rather lack of them, I'm your man.

John , your reputation preceeds you.....shop floors are not the only thing your an expert at...

 

Dave

[dsquire]

Workshop floors, or rather lack of them, I'm your man.

John , your reputation preceeds you.....shop floors are not the only thing your an expert at...

 

Dave

I always thought it was his charm. 

Cheers 

Don