Author Topic: Wright Brothers 1903 Engine  (Read 45087 times)

Offline 90LX_Notch

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Re: Wright Brothers 1903 Engine
« Reply #30 on: January 14, 2013, 08:40:09 PM »
Bill-

Absolutely make it as rigid as you need.  All I had at the time was a 3/8 boring bar and needed to thread 5/16-32.  I used what I had on hand since I had an hour to make the finished part.

-Bob
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Offline Bearcar1

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Re: Wright Brothers 1903 Engine
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2013, 02:30:05 AM »
Sorry to have joined the party so late Bill, looks as if this one is going to be a real doozy. No doubt a long thread that will keep us entertained for quite some time. Best of luck and I'll certainly be watching as you progress.  :ThumbsUp:


BC1
Jim

Offline swilliams

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Re: Wright Brothers 1903 Engine
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2013, 10:18:17 AM »
This is really interesting Bill

Are these shallow threads a feature from the original? Do you think they would have also done the threads on a lathe on the original and had similar issues?

Steve

Online b.lindsey

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Re: Wright Brothers 1903 Engine
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2013, 11:21:02 AM »
Thanks for checking in Jim and Steve. Yes the threads are the same on the full size engine only 4 times larger in diameter. I can scale the diameters closely enough but if the original tpi's were in the ranges of 32-40 tpi (and many were) its a bit harder to scale those which would be in the 128-160 tpi range. I think ( and feel free to chime in with opinions) that anything above about 40 tpi in cast iron is going to result in a thread cross section too shallow to provide much strength. So the trade off becomes fewer threads engaging vs. thread strength. I would assume that they cut many of the original threads on the lathe available to them in the bicycle shop.  We have to  also keep in mind that this engine, though historic, never ran very much at all...I think only for 3-4 "flights," the longest of which was 59 seconds...so even with starting and warm up time the run duration was likely less than 3 minutes.  After the first few original flights with the 1903 engine, they converted to a more traditional vertical cylinder arrangement in subsequent engines.

Bill

Offline steamer

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Re: Wright Brothers 1903 Engine
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2013, 11:26:34 AM »
Besides the build...I'm enjoying the history lesson too!

Keep it coming Bill!

As far as thread holding...it might be worth a few experiments in a piece of iron as to what the "limit" would be in cast iron...and I mean good stuff like Durabar.     It might hold better than you think...and a fine thread here or there wouldn't be the end of the world if it holds well and solves some other problems...

Just thinking out loud.....

Dave
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Online b.lindsey

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Re: Wright Brothers 1903 Engine
« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2013, 11:31:17 AM »
Good point Dave, and I think the threading attachment will allow me to go up to 80 tpi...ordered that yesterday btw.

Bill

Offline gbritnell

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Re: Wright Brothers 1903 Engine
« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2013, 12:58:43 PM »
Hi Bill,
Pardon me for posting so many pictures. It's not my intent to hijack your thread but these pictures were posted elsewhere when I was building my radial. They show the threading that I did when I made the heads and cylinders for my radial. The thread is .75-40. The heads are aluminum and the cylinders are 12L. Having made many parts from Durabar iron I wouldn't be afraid to thread them and trust the strength. Once I got my parts made I chucked the cylinders in a collet, threaded on the head and tightened it with an adjustable wrench and quite tightly I might add.
gbritnell
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Online b.lindsey

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Re: Wright Brothers 1903 Engine
« Reply #37 on: January 15, 2013, 01:08:53 PM »
George, that is quite helpful to me and I am sure others, and is certainly pertinent to the discussion at hand. I see that you had only a few threads engaging also which helps dispell my concerns a lot. As Dave noted, I will play around with some scraps first both to learn the threading attachment and to run some trials as to what will work best in my particular situation. Please feel free to jump in at any time!!

Bill

Offline Maryak

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Re: Wright Brothers 1903 Engine
« Reply #38 on: January 15, 2013, 11:36:29 PM »
Just a comment about thread strength. If you think of a nut and bolt then the size/no. of threads engaged by the nut gives the required strength. What I'm trying to say is that a stud requires no more threads engaged than would be engaged by a nut for said stud.

Best Regards
Bob
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Online b.lindsey

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Re: Wright Brothers 1903 Engine
« Reply #39 on: January 16, 2013, 12:26:45 AM »
Bob, that is crrtainly true and no doubt factored into standard nut sizes. What i have here in thread lengths significantly shorter than a nut would be for the given dia. and thread pitch.

Bill

Online b.lindsey

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Re: Wright Brothers 1903 Engine
« Reply #40 on: January 18, 2013, 02:00:52 PM »
Nothing to post in the way of pictures yet but got notification yesterday that Big Brown was delivering two parcels, the threading attachment from Sherline and some bits and pieces from MSC. They were calling for possible snow last night so I stopped by the grocery on the way home, got home, and was starting dinner when the power went out. Seemed odd since it was just raining but after a bit I looked up the road only to see a large tree whose roots had succombed to the saturated ground and fallen directly across the road taking the power with it. Since it is a one street subdivision, I knew I could kiss Big Brown goodbye for the night. AH well, they can retry today along with another parcel from speedy metals which contains the materials I need for the crankshaft. Hopefully the weekend will be more productive. We never did get the snow.  :rant:

Bill

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Wright Brothers 1903 Engine
« Reply #41 on: January 18, 2013, 10:12:32 PM »
Truly a bummer. No Big Brown, no electric, no TV, no lathe! And no snow to justify it all.
You must have gotten power back since then...unless you're at work.
Hope all is well.
Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you'.
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Zee-Another Thread Trasher.

Offline Tennessee Whiskey

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Re: Wright Brothers 1903 Engine
« Reply #42 on: January 18, 2013, 10:49:32 PM »
Should be getting home any time now. Have they been there, have they been there? Almost like shopping with the wife: you're spending the money, but, at least here I really like what you're buying.
Eric

Offline BillTodd

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Re: Wright Brothers 1903 Engine
« Reply #43 on: January 18, 2013, 11:11:39 PM »
http://www.gizmology.net/nutsbolts.htm

strain taken be each thread (turn)
Thread    %    %Sum
1          34%    34%
2         23%    55%
3         16%    71%
4         11%    82%
5         9%    91%
6         7%    98%

Just a comment about thread strength. If you think of a nut and bolt then the size/no. of threads engaged by the nut gives the required strength. What I'm trying to say is that a stud requires no more threads engaged than would be engaged by a nut for said stud.

Best Regards
Bob
Bill
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Offline Don1966

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Re: Wright Brothers 1903 Engine
« Reply #44 on: January 18, 2013, 11:40:33 PM »
Bill I hate to heard that you have some dead time , with no brown and no electricity. Such a bummer just when you really get into a project, don't that just put a stitch in you side? Oh! Well it could be worst. Just waiting for a fix on your engine Bill.

Don