Author Topic: Raynerd's Cowells ME Lathe (Read 24021 times)

craynerd · « **on:** January 06, 2013, 11:11:37 PM »

Hello, I just wanted to post my little Cowells lathe on here as there seem quite a few of you on this forum with a Cowells! I put this post on the sister forum Madmodder, so some of you will likely already have seen it.

This actually is a very early cowells. In fact, after a couple of brief chats with the director over at cowells, he is pretty sure that this is one of the very early cowells just after the transfer from Perris lathes. The big give away is the absence of the cowells casting "stamp" on the bed. In actual fact, my lathe is likely to be a Perris made bed sold under the new name of Cowells. All fairly immaterial since the design has not changed.

The lathe came with very little in the way of tooling and accessories but for the price I could afford, I'll have to add these as I go. Cowells is still going strong and so all parts are readily available, but sadly at a price! - check out their website for more details.

The lathe came with a 3 jaw chuck but no key and I'm really really still struggling sourcing a key! I`ve had an opportunity to take it to rdg and one other local tool shop and neither could help. Cowells have no key as they have changed chuck and although the chuck is apparently a Toyo made and now Proxxon chuck, it seems impossible to find the key alone! Next step would be proxxon alone but all the UK suppliers say they can not get the key. Another option would be to drill a few holes around the scroll and close it with tommy bars. Not the best idea, but an idea at least!

I have also added an ER16 collet chuck since it is a good scale size for this lathe and I already have a set of collets.

The standard ME lathe came with the change wheel set for the auto traverse gearing but not with the suitable gear cutting change wheels so obtaining these was first on my "to do" list. I now have a full set of gears including some teeth count that should give me imperial BA threads on this metric lathe as discussed in another thread here. I need to learn to use the standard change wheels before playing with the alternative tooth count sets.

Blank gears:

The cut gears after returning from being hobbed, including the extra few...

The tail stock is a zero morse taper. I was lucky enough to pick this threaded original cowells arbor and original cowells sold chuck off eBay very reasonably priced.

I'd like an independent 4 jaw as soon as I can afford one.
Secondly is a quick change tool post and I`ve got the materials for this, just need to find the time.
For completeness, I'd like a fixed and travelling steady at some point soon.

Really enjoying this lathe so far! Thanks for looking.
Chris

zeeprogrammer · « **Reply #1 on:** January 06, 2013, 11:31:00 PM »

Cool post!
It never ceases to amaze me all the types of lathes that are/were available and their history.
Can you make, or have made for you, a key?

mklotz · « **Reply #2 on:** January 06, 2013, 11:53:01 PM »

The Cowells are lovely looking and, I'm told (no personal experience), very precise little machines.

I've always wondered about that cantilevered bed though. Why did they do it? Does it have any deleterious effect on the accuracy or rigidity of the lathe?

steamer · « **Reply #3 on:** January 07, 2013, 01:13:13 AM »

Hey Chris,

If I recall, the Cowells has a 1/2-20 thread......though that may be wishfull thinking on my part

I would check Sherline products for a good 4 jaw. They make their chucks with other threaded back plate sizes.....

Dave

swilliams · « **Reply #4 on:** January 07, 2013, 01:20:07 AM »

Quote from: mklotz on January 06, 2013, 11:53:01 PM

I've always wondered about that cantilevered bed though. Why did they do it? Does it have any deleterious effect on the accuracy or rigidity of the lathe?

Marv, I believe the main benefit is that you can just bolt it down without twisting the bed. Many of the English hobby lathes, such as old pre 7 series Myfords had cantilever beds

Steve

steamer · « **Reply #5 on:** January 07, 2013, 01:30:44 AM »

Ah The Perris PL90 which was the forunner of the Cowells...had 1/2-20 UNF spindle threads.

So....unless Cowells changed it.....inquireing minds want to know

http://www.sherline.com/4jawipg.htm

Dave

craynerd · « **Reply #6 on:** January 07, 2013, 01:53:40 AM »

Thanks for the comments chaps. The original spindle was m14 x 1.5mm as the early cowells were. The Perris spindle was different again as you stated steamer, so this was definitely cowells. However it has now been changed for a M14 x 1mm, it cost me a bit of money but gave me more flexibility. Besides, I managed to sell the old spindle for a decent price! The er16 chuck is a benefit of the new spindle!
Steamer - I've seen the Sherline 4 jaw and that would be my preference for sure, but being in the uk I can't find anyone who supplies it in Europe with this thread, despite them showing it as an option on their website. Over the years I've become less inclined to order from the USA for fear of dreaded import tax but I may have to do just that! The other option is a Austrian made Unimat 4 jaw.

What I have been reminded of, off a user on here, is to be careful of fitting cheap critical parts that ultimately reduce the lathe from a fairly precise Cowells to a lesser lathe. I guess the lathe is only as good as the cheapest part. RDG tools do a 4 jaw with m14 thread for ?45!!! I must admit, I have considered how critical some things are with a 4 jaw only any misalignment would be taken up in centring the work anyway unlike for example a 3 jaw or collet chuck?!?

craynerd · « **Reply #7 on:** January 07, 2013, 02:06:53 AM »

Zeeprogrammer - I'm guessing I could make a chuck key. It was suggested over on madmodder forum. I've got loads of other really interesting ideas and projects on the go at the moment in building a clock and I've little time in the workshop as it is with work and two kids. I'm not going to lie, the idea of making a key doesn't excite me right now but I'll just have to resign to the idea of having to make one if I can't buy one over the next few weeks! I'm certainly not willing to buy a new ?220 chuck for the sake of key that is for sure..! I'm guessing I could use the scroll teeth to generate the profile of cutter but that would be single point and ideally I'd like a multi tooth cutter for a steel key! Then I'd need the angle, I guess that would be based on a centre line from the top of the scroll teeth to the pin centre. About to go to bed and making me feed worried just thinking about it!

Chris

sco · « **Reply #8 on:** January 07, 2013, 08:08:41 AM »

Quote from: craynerd on January 07, 2013, 01:53:40 AM

What I have been reminded of, off a user on here, is to be careful of fitting cheap critical parts that ultimately reduce the lathe from a fairly precise Cowells to a lesser lathe. I guess the lathe is only as good as the cheapest part. RDG tools do a 4 jaw with m14 thread for ?45!!! I must admit, I have considered how critical some things are with a 4 jaw only any misalignment would be taken up in centring the work anyway unlike for example a 3 jaw or collet chuck?!?

I came unstuck with a 'cheap' 4 jaw - I ordered the Proxxon 4 jaw which from the picture appeared to be made by Rohm - what arrived was a copy probably made in India. The jaws were not ground parallel with the body axis which made it impossible to get stock to run true.

Jo · « **Reply #9 on:** January 07, 2013, 08:49:08 AM »

As they say you get what you pay for.

The Sherline chucks are a reasonable quality and not all that expensive. Just needs a backplate made to fit the nose thread.

Jo

b.lindsey · « **Reply #10 on:** January 07, 2013, 11:51:12 AM »

All the recent posts on Cowells are fascinating mainly from the standpoint that its nice to see QUALITY of whatever vintage and knowing that it still exists even if at a price well beyond my means. But that raises a question...at the hefty asking prices...does anyone have any idea how many of these they sell on an annual basis. I would assume, maybe wrongly, that most find their way into the horology trades where money can be made from them as opposed to home hobby uses. Personally I hope the company can hang on...who knows, maybe my ship will come in one of these days

Bill

NickG · « **Reply #11 on:** January 07, 2013, 07:02:18 PM »

Agree with all the buy cheap, buy twice , get what you pay for notions to a certain extent, however, I've had 2 3-jaw Chinese chucks from axminster and they've both been very good. A new cheap chuck is certainly a lot better than an old worn chuck in my experience. Same with the rdg keyless chuck I have and Chinese er32 collet system. All v good. I know you won't want to do this but a lot if chucks this size simply have a hole or holes for a tommy bar drilled in the ring gear if you can't find or make a key! Depends whether you plan on selling it though.

mzt · « **Reply #12 on:** January 09, 2013, 09:18:25 AM »

Craynerd,

http://www.toolsandco.it/en/proxxon-chiave-mandrino-di-ricambio-per-pd-230-e/s/1289/2/262/

This may be the key You're looking for (or a spare key for the TS drill chuck): You will want to check with them before purchasing.

I see You're hobbing Your own gears, making that missing key should not be a problem for You. Maybe it would, I have no experience into gear cutting.
I have that PD230 chuck, if You want me to take measurements on the key just let me know.
Marcello

craynerd · « **Reply #13 on:** January 10, 2013, 09:49:10 AM »

Hello Marcello. Yes that is indeed the chuck key and I emailed them to check it was in stock and confirm the pin size. To be honest, if the pin size was correct I would have had a punt on it despite the high postage costs. Unfortunately however, they replied to say it was in stock and they would email me again to confirm the pin but never got back in touch. I emailed them again to remind them and once again I got no reply! I`m a bit reluctant about sending them any money now!

Quote

cut gears after returning from being hobbed

I didn`t hob myself Marcello. I did the blanks and sent them off to someone who offered for a very good price, almost trying to help me out! I`m not too sure he would take kindly to me sending him a chuck and asking him to make me a key

I`ll give tools and co one more email and see if I get a reply.

Chris

sco · « **Reply #14 on:** January 10, 2013, 10:30:47 AM »

If it is a Proxxon key you might have more luck at their uk distributor Brimarc.

craynerd · « **Reply #15 on:** January 24, 2013, 08:02:28 AM »

Hi Sco
I really appreciate your advice. I rang Brimarc and they are pricing one for me. I tried many other places but them!

After a bin full of scrap recently, I needed something for my confidence! I decided to make a nice rear tool post for my cowells and do a decent job of it. A kind chap on the yahoo group provided dimensions, I purchased a piece of 25mm square steel bar, slotted it and made a start!

Faced all the sides square, mainly to make it look nice! Got a decent finish but my machine vibrates too much and still leaves little hair marks.

Nothing much to it I know, but took my time and it looks nice!
Next thing was a tnut, 1/2inch wide but with something like only a 2 mm height at the sides. Was a little tricky but I seemed to get a decent finish again, rightly or wrongly with the big facemill.

I could have just locked it all down with a nut but I choose to make a handle. It unlocks and locks back on quicker than my qctp on my boxford! I must admit I want a qctp for the cowells and rather than trying to making one, I'm strongly considering just making lots of square tool holders with a similar lock down handle.

I wanted to give it a nice finish so tried to blue it. I've blue small pieces of steel before for clock and watch projects but nothing this big (still tiny I know!). Heated it with a blow torch and dunked it in car oil when it looked about right. I think in hindsight I left it a couple of seconds too long so I lost a little of the real deep blue but it still looks a good colour. Hard for my camera to pick out....

Then looking good on my cowells! Just need to buy a standard hss parting tool. I got one of those small one with a parting blade and it doesn't sit properly and sticks out the back too far!

ths · « **Reply #16 on:** January 24, 2013, 10:04:06 AM »

Hi Chris,

Great work on the rear tool post, the colour looks terrific on my iPad! Have you enough room on the other side of it to put another tool in, perhaps a chamfering tool?

Cheers, Hugh.

steamer · « **Reply #17 on:** January 24, 2013, 10:45:58 AM »

Nice one Raynerd!....I need to make one of those for the SB.....

Dave

NickG · « **Reply #18 on:** January 24, 2013, 10:51:26 AM »

Good stuff! You're right, the way forward with these little lathes is lots of normal tool posts, once the tool is packet to the right height it's just as easy to swap and a lot easier to make! Only disadvantage is setting of tool height I guess.

Speedy · « **Reply #19 on:** January 24, 2013, 01:59:10 PM »

You could also try Rejon Machine Tools for a chuck key. They sell the Toyo tooling, now rebadged as Manix. They are at rejon(dot)co(dot)uk. I have tried for some time to find a key in secondhand tool shops with no success. They are rare.

Pete

BillTodd · « **Reply #20 on:** January 24, 2013, 04:32:10 PM »

Nice one Chris

I've been designing a QCTP for my Haighton Cadet (2.5" centre height so similar size to the Cowells)

I have yet to build one but if you'd like drawing I'll try to bash something out for you:

The design is based on the hardinge type I use on my HLV-H. It uses a RH thread on the clamp (M6) and a LH thread (I drawn Acme type but could be anything) on the locking handle (rotating clockwise draws the clamp into the body).

Bill

craynerd · « **Reply #21 on:** May 19, 2013, 10:48:56 PM »

Hi Bill..sorry for the lack of reply, I don't come on here too often! I'm certainly interested in the plans - thanks for posting.

Just a quick question as I know we have quite a few Cowells users on here. I've been cutting mainly brass with the Cowells but when I Swap to steel, the belt is slipping with even the lightest of cuts! I've tried putting more tension on the belt but if you look at the belt setup in one of the earlier pictures, it seems like you put tension on the belts by screwing back the motor plate...pushing the whole setup back. I've tried this but it is still slipping! So much so, that it is unusable at the moment.

Time in the workshop has been really limited over the last 2-3 months and when I have been down there I've been wanting to get on with projects so having a real study of this hasn't been on my top priority list, but does anything obvious stand out as to why this should be happening or what I could do to solve the issue? I'd like to try and get it sorted over the coming weeks.

Johnb · « **Reply #22 on:** May 20, 2013, 10:39:54 PM »

I can happily machine steel, well some of them, on my Cowells. Different shaped tool, slower speed and finer cuts than brass. And it makes a big difference if the tool is nice and sharp. I usually find finish degenerates before the belt starts slipping.

JimG · « **Reply #23 on:** May 21, 2013, 09:47:54 AM »

Quote from: craynerd on May 19, 2013, 10:48:56 PM

Just a quick question as I know we have quite a few Cowells users on here. I've been cutting mainly brass with the Cowells but when I Swap to steel, the belt is slipping with even the lightest of cuts! I've tried putting more tension on the belt but if you look at the belt setup in one of the earlier pictures, it seems like you put tension on the belts by screwing back the motor plate...pushing the whole setup back. I've tried this but it is still slipping! So much so, that it is unusable at the moment.

Have you tried cleaning the belts and pulleys with something like IPA to get rid of any possible oil. I know that I've caused myself problems some times with the belts slipping when I've been a bit over exuberant with the oil can when oiling the headstock and countershaft.

I've cut steel quite happily on my machine but I have to go easy with feeds and speeds when the diameters get over about 1/2", i.e. slowest direct speed or drop down into back gear.

Jim.

Jo · « **Reply #24 on:** May 21, 2013, 04:40:31 PM »

The secondary belt tension is adjusted by the lever just behind the headstock, the Primary by adjusting the motor position.

My secondary belt is always covered in oil from the headstock bearings and only has slipping problems if the tool is blunt or I am over doing it.

Jo

craynerd · « **Reply #25 on:** October 26, 2013, 07:22:21 PM »

Thanks for the replies and I'm sorry I missed them...by months!! Better late than never for the thank you though!

For various reasons I've been doing little in terms of engineering and any time I have had, I've been building a project for my daughter. I haven't touched the cowells since holding off the rest of my clock build but my aim is to make a start next week.

I was 100% not trying to take too much with the cut as I'd hardly put anything on and I had tried a few tools. I will adjust the belt tension and give the belts a clean.

Interestingly, I am using a notched belt, it has tracks on one side. I've seen a picture of similar belts being used on lathes online and I noticed that in some pics it runs smooth side down and others notch side down. Which is the correct way?

All the best
Chris

PJW · « **Reply #26 on:** August 05, 2017, 12:35:01 AM »

Hi did you ever find a chuck Key? as I am now in the same position as you. If anyone can steer me in the right direction I would be great full.

Peter

b.lindsey · « **Reply #27 on:** August 05, 2017, 12:48:24 AM »

Peter, are you trying to fit the same chuck as Chris? What is your spindle nose thread?

Bill

PJW · « **Reply #28 on:** August 05, 2017, 08:04:02 AM »

Sorry for the delay in answering, internet problems, the nose size is 14 x 1.5mm and the photo gives all the other info on the chuck, I had a few chuck keys in my drawer but non fit as the location holes in the chuck are small.

PJW · « **Reply #29 on:** August 05, 2017, 12:58:40 PM »

I have sorted out my chuck key problem, found one with the right teeth, turned the pivot down to 4mm & bobs your uncle!!

b.lindsey · « **Reply #30 on:** August 05, 2017, 05:00:14 PM »

That's great, glad you got it sorted out Peter!!

Bill

PJW · « **Reply #31 on:** August 05, 2017, 08:04:12 PM »

So am I, I searched the internet worldwide to find something that would fit, I'm glad I don't through much out!!

Peter

b.lindsey · « **Reply #32 on:** August 05, 2017, 09:28:27 PM »

I think there is a universal law Peter, you may not need something for 20 years, but the day after you trash it, an instant and urgent need arises

Bill

Admiral_dk · « **Reply #33 on:** August 06, 2017, 09:19:25 PM »

That is one of Murphy's 45 laws :

No matter how long you store something - you are not going to need it until 14 days after you have thrown it out

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Author Topic: Raynerd's Cowells ME Lathe (Read 24021 times)