Author Topic: Ancient Lorries with Monster Engines! (Read 8852 times)

Old Bill · « **on:** December 23, 2012, 01:31:40 PM »

I have been asked to show a few pictures of my old lorries and whilst they are not really the thing for this forum, I hope they may be of some interest. I suspect that most contributors are interested in all sorts of engineering as am I. I even build locomotives but I won?t mention them as Jo will have me excommunicated!

When I left college, I decided that I wanted an old lorry to rebuild and bought the remains of a Thornycroft J of 1917. There was not much of it and I have been collecting parts ever since. The chassis frame came from the middle of Salisbury plain and, ten years later, the engine arrived from Auckland, New Zealand! A further twelve years later, last Christmas in fact, the last major part of the kit, the differential, also turned up from New Zealand. At that point we gave the project the green light and have been pushing on with rebuilding the engine ever since.

In the mean time, my Father, brother and I have rebuilt a Dennis Subsidy ?A? class lorry. This is it arriving:

It is built, as the Thorny will be, from a pile of bits and therefore has no provenance. However, it is made from Dennis components obtained from all over the place and any we couldn?t get, we have made ourselves. Both Father and I have a Myford Super Seven and a Warco Minor mill/drill and these do most of the work. Father also has an elderly Colchester Student which gets used for the bigger jobs. After ten years work, the Dennis successfully completed the London to Brighton run last year and has now been driven a total of 86 miles!

If anyone is interested, we have documented the whole project here, along with progress on the Thornycroft to date:

http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?429-WW1-Dennis-truck-find

Time to get stuck into my Mercedes engine model. I will post pictures of that in due course.

Happy Christmas everyone!

Steve

steamer · « **Reply #1 on:** December 23, 2012, 02:19:48 PM »

That's awesome Steve! Thanks for posting that! Wonderful job! I'll follow along on the link!

Dave

Jo · « **Reply #2 on:** December 23, 2012, 02:37:17 PM »

Quote from: Old Bill on December 23, 2012, 01:31:40 PM

I even build locomotives but I won't mention them as Jo will have me excommunicated!

I have nothing against locomotives, there is a right place for everything. After all it was your father and his 7 1/4" locomotives that I have to thank for inspiring me to take up building engines and having my own workshop in the first place

.

As for locomotives you seem to forget I have two in the dining room...the parts for the 7 1/4" is in the hallway, the three gauge 1 well...but they don't count in the grand scheme of things.

Merry Christmas Steve

and please pass my best wishes onto Tony and Tim.

Jo

John S · « **Reply #3 on:** December 23, 2012, 03:16:54 PM »

I have rather a soft spot for locomotives - Romney Marsh..................

steamer · « **Reply #4 on:** December 23, 2012, 11:33:00 PM »

That was EPIC! Wow!!!!!!!!!! I just spent a good hour going throught the thread!!!!!

rleete · « **Reply #5 on:** December 24, 2012, 12:39:09 AM »

Sure liked to make things heavy back then, eh? You must have arms like a weightlifter to work on those old beasts.

Interesting to look at, but I'd never have the patience for that kind of work.

Old Bill · « **Reply #6 on:** December 25, 2012, 09:15:58 AM »

Thanks for all of that. No, I am not built like a weightlifter but there are times when I wish I was! I think the electric starter was a grand invention as swinging a six litre engine is absolutely at the limit of my strength. Serves me right for driving a desk for a living!

I had forgotten your loco, Jo. A project for when you run out of things to do. I must admit that the great joy for me is making things from locomotives to engines to three ton lorries and I can think of no greater pleasure than spending a wet afternoon in my shed turning a gunmetal casting and then being able to talk about it with my friends. That's why forums like this are so great. Thank you for inviting me in. I'll post something a bit more relevant shortly!

Merry Christmas to all! I'm going out in the shed!

Steve

PJW · « **Reply #7 on:** December 25, 2012, 09:41:06 AM »

Hi Bill, you have brought a bit of history back to life & you should be very proud

Peter

ths · « **Reply #8 on:** December 25, 2012, 09:55:52 AM »

Hi Steve,

What a fantastic (re)construction! I had no idea I had an interest in ancient lorries with monster engines until now!

How did she go on the London to Brighton? I help run a 16mm film club here, and we had Genevive a few months ago. The pleasure you have in doing these up really leaps off the screen.

Cheers, Hugh.

Old Bill · « **Reply #9 on:** December 25, 2012, 11:46:06 AM »

Hi Hugh.

You are very kind. I must say that it drives very nicely although it is very unhappy until thoroughly warmed up. Crash box of course and no power assistance but it is fun and there is nothing ike the satisfaction of a clean gear change! If you follow the link above and look at the Dennis thread, you will see a few clips on page 145. (145? that's ridiculous!).

Cheers!

Steve

Old Bill · « **Reply #10 on:** December 07, 2018, 09:45:14 PM »

Well, I see that it is almost six years since I posted this. The lorry project has taken a bit longer than hoped for so my Mercedes engine project has only just started. In the mean time, we have almost finished the lorry and this is what it looks like now:

It was built up from bits collected from all over the place including the engine and differential from New Zealand. The engine had spent sixty years in a field full of water so it really was a major undertaking to bring it back. Just getting it apart was challenge enough! We made lots of new bits for it including new pistons. The bores were so bad that there was not enough metal to skim them out so we linered them instead. Unfortunately we lost 3/16" from the bore so the old pistons couldn't be made to fit and I had to make some new ones. On our first run out, the engine idled well but as soon as it was under load, it seized so we took it apart for a look.

We reached the conclusion that I had made them too tight in the bores with a constant clearance of 0.008" so I set them up in the Myford and skimmed them in steps so that they are still 0.008" at the skirt but 0.015" at the crown. This is something of a rattling fit but seems to be fine. We have had one test run which went well but on return to base we found the sup casting leaking and the petrol tank had split. The sump had lasted 100 years and chose that moment to give up! Anyway, I have now fixed the sump and the tank and on Christmas day we plan to put it back together.

The little Mercedes is a bit of light relief!

Steve

Steamer5 · « **Reply #11 on:** December 07, 2018, 11:41:30 PM »

Hi Steve,
Don’t know how I missed the original postings but WOW!

Don’t worry about posting about loco’s there’s a few of us here that are into them.....then there’s Chris & his toys!

Nice to see that colonies have supported the rebuild...... no wonder it’s so hard to find bits here

! But likely that the major bits have long since been lost.
I’ll check out your link as it sounds like it going to be an interesting one!

Cheers Kerrin

Ye-Ole Steam Dude · « **Reply #12 on:** December 07, 2018, 11:50:25 PM »

Hello Steve,

Absolutely beautiful restoration work and you have saved a piece of history.

Have a great day,
Thomas

Jo · « **Reply #13 on:** December 08, 2018, 06:32:26 AM »

That looks a little better from when you had me working on it last time

Jo

Old Bill · « **Reply #14 on:** December 08, 2018, 08:07:20 AM »

Thanks for your comments chaps. You are very kind. There are so many things to be interested in and so many nice things to do. I can't imagine ever being bored. Life is just too short!

Jo. You found the original green paint on the chassis before that first picture was taken. Now everyone with WW1 lorries is buying paint to your recipe!

Steve

Roger B · « **Reply #15 on:** December 08, 2018, 04:59:02 PM »

Splendid

When I was in England I was involved with the University of Southampton's Dennis Charabanc (Toastrack) as well as with Robert Jowitt's ex Paris Renault buses. This is where you learn different working techniques like using a jack at the end of the spanner to tighten the differential pinion flange nut

steamer · « **Reply #16 on:** December 08, 2018, 06:12:28 PM »

When my dad was a firefighter, his main task was Chief Mechanic. I was bout 12 at the time, and my favorite truck was the 29' Seagrave city duty ladder truck. It had a 903 cubic inch V12 with dual ignition and 4" dual exhausts. It would shake the floor when you started it up but what sweet music it made. If I can find a picture of it I'll post. Twin distributors and 4 ignition coils My dad said it was tuned as (4) 6 cylinder engines, and would drive mechanics nuts, so he would do all the Seagraves in this part of the state.

steamer · « **Reply #17 on:** December 08, 2018, 06:26:18 PM »

Here it is....A good bit before my time. Date of the photo is 46'...but that's the truck!

I think it was actually a 42'Seagrave..I think I'm thinking of the old 29' Ahrens Fox pumper...different beast

steamer · « **Reply #18 on:** December 08, 2018, 06:29:25 PM »

And that is what I remember...though not the same truck

Instead of red, the ignition wire loom was polished nickel

ShopShoe · « **Reply #19 on:** December 08, 2018, 10:45:57 PM »

Thanks for posting. Those are Great Old Trucks.

ShopShoe

Old Bill · « **Reply #20 on:** December 08, 2018, 10:56:34 PM »

Hi Roger. I well remember the Toastrack. I looked after a James and Browne motor car when I was a student and that set me off on road transport. My model engineering skills came in handy at that time. Of course, I now work for the Dennis company so the interest is still there.

Interesting to see the Seagrave. We have an FWD truck in the collection and Dad made an appointment to go to the FWD factory in Clintonville to see the factory museum. They are now trading as FWD Seagrave and were making the fire trucks to replace those lost when the twin towers came down. Incidentally, the factory hasn't changed since 1918 except for the surrounding fence!

Steve

steamer · « **Reply #21 on:** December 08, 2018, 11:12:16 PM »

Quote from: Old Bill on December 08, 2018, 10:56:34 PM

Hi Roger. I well remember the Toastrack. I looked after a James and Browne motor car when I was a student and that set me off on road transport. My model engineering skills came in handy at that time. Of course, I now work for the Dennis company so the interest is still there.

Interesting to see the Seagrave. We have an FWD truck in the collection and Dad made an appointment to go to the FWD factory in Clintonville to see the factory museum. They are now trading as FWD Seagrave and were making the fire trucks to replace those lost when the twin towers came down. Incidentally, the factory hasn't changed since 1918 except for the surrounding fence!

Steve

Funny you say that. We had 2 FWD pumpers. from the 50's both had 6 cylinder Waukesha's at about 600 cubic inch. big guys...Engine was 2500 pound by itself. Great for getting deep into the local forest for brush fires.

Steam Haulage · « **Reply #22 on:** December 09, 2018, 08:26:29 AM »

For those that can make them out the lorries in my avatar were photographed in 1926, when my Dad was 23. You might see two 'operators, Dad and his Dad. My grandfathers business.

Jerry

Art K · « **Reply #23 on:** December 09, 2018, 05:51:37 PM »

Steve,
I have enjoyed this bit about trucks and their massive engines. I noticed that your engine is a T head. One of my favorite examples of this is the 1923 Pierce Arrow Series 33 engine shown here at the Gilmore Museum in Hickory Corner, Michigan.

This although not a truck, it was a 414ci (6.78litre) inline six and was popular in rum runner speedboats during Prohibition.
Art

steamer · « **Reply #24 on:** December 09, 2018, 07:37:26 PM »

Hey art the Seagrave is based on the Pierce Arrow and is a side valve as well

Old Bill · « **Reply #25 on:** December 09, 2018, 07:44:13 PM »

Jerry. Those lorries certainly look like my era vehicles. Can you show a larger pic please? I do like seing these things!

Thanks Art. That is a most impressive machine! Another museum to put on my 'see it one day' list too!

Steve

Art K · « **Reply #26 on:** December 09, 2018, 10:41:06 PM »

Dave,
I didn't know that of Seagrave, although my dad was a boiler operator, not a fire truck mechanic. But he could have joined your dad spinning wrenches and have that thing running like a top! I did know P-A got into GM's cylinder war and towards the end built a V12.
Art

Steam Haulage · « **Reply #27 on:** December 10, 2018, 02:36:41 PM »

Hi Old Bill,

Here is the pic of the two wagons, plus their operators, my Dad and his Dad. The location is at the foot of Grenfell Hill. Just past the pub the road swings to the right and uphill. I don't remember the gradient of that hill but i recall cycling up it in the school dinner break was hard work. Perhaps the engines were more powerful or more geared down than I thought.

They converted them to charabancs for seaside trips by putting in bench seats. I presume the floors were swept as well.

My Dad always looked back to those happy times. He told me they were Morris Commercials. I have been unable to check this.

Jerry

Old Bill · « **Reply #28 on:** December 12, 2018, 09:04:16 PM »

Thanks for the pic Jerry. I reckon they are Albions, almost certainly war surplus, like this one. I don't think Morris Commercial ever built solid tyred vehicles. Albions were notoriously slow but would climb the side of a mountain.

Thanks for sharing!

Steve

b.lindsey · « **Reply #29 on:** December 12, 2018, 11:05:12 PM »

Bet that was a rough ride on solid tires though

Loving these pictures!!

Bill

steamer · « **Reply #30 on:** December 14, 2018, 12:15:51 AM »

In the 50's....when my Dad started with the fire department, my town was much more rural than it is now...we needed some forest fire fighting equipment!....Well they had no money, so what to do?

Well, being he was a mechanic during the war, he picked ups some army surplus trucks and converted them. One of them, my personal favorite, was Engine 7 see attached

Its a 1942 Pontoon layer. That said, it had single not duel rear wheels. and a narrower track. This made it easy to crawl into the woods, and it was much loved by those that understood how to drive her.

I remember hitching a ride out of the woods on that truck, and finding a 8" maple tree being in the middle of the "road"....blocking our way....driver said No problem! Dropped a gear and punched it! Went right through it!...bent the huge channel iron front bumper though, much to the dismay of my dad, who quickly got it hot with a torch and pulled it back straight with a chain tied to the big pine tree at the edge of the fire department parking lot.

I'm told that they re powered it recently and it's still in service with the forestry department near Mt Monadnock.

b.lindsey · « **Reply #31 on:** December 14, 2018, 12:31:58 AM »

It certainly has been well cared for based on the picture!!

Bill

steamer · « **Reply #32 on:** December 14, 2018, 12:35:35 AM »

that was probably .....mid to late 70's?....I think? based on the Chevy in the background.

Dave

steamer · « **Reply #33 on:** December 14, 2018, 12:00:05 PM »

2:30 AM, July-ish 1983

Wake up!....huh? I say

WAKE UP!......Engine 7 is stuck at Barrett pond!...my dad leaves my room..he means get up and get dressed now! I was 19.

I get up, throw on something and we walk out the door.

My dad had been retired from the FD for some time now, but they all knew what he could do, and what he could do with that truck.

We start driving...he's not saying much, and I'm not awake....but I know where we're going, and he is not happy about the situation he was just told about...but he's quiet.

We get to Barrett pond, Engine 7 is at the other side beyond the access road so we walk around the pond.

They had just dredged the pond, and it was 15 feet deep in places, Engine 7 was on a call, and was trying to navigate an off cambered path right next to the waters edge, and every time they tried to move forward, the truck would slide sideways towards the water....They didn't know what to do next, so they called my dad.

We got there...everyone backed up and he looked over the situation...and he got a lot less stressed....still wasn't saying much.

He looks at 4 firefighters,and then me and says " Dave, anchor the winch cable to a tree, You guys...Follow him! " Oh crap...time to wake up!

The Four firefighters snap to and we hauled the cable over to a tree I chose, and I told them how to hook it up...never even got my hands dirty!....They were all over it.

Dad got in the truck, engaged low range 6 wheel drive and the front winch which was driven off a PTO. Now at low range and 1st gear, the winch speed just about matched the truck speed perfectly.

He let out the clutch, and just drove right out of the predicament it was in as pretty as you please.....he stopped, shook the shift commanders hand, and we walked right back out...

"Thank you!" and he never said a word all the way home. Never heard about it again....that old picture made me remember that night though.

Dave

Admiral_dk · « **Reply #34 on:** December 14, 2018, 12:41:35 PM »

Great story Dave.

That was the same reason why the old Land Rovers where popular in the wild, as their lowest Four Wheel Drive matched the mechanical Winch exactly - the later electric winch is not quite the same, but still useful.

Old Bill · « **Reply #35 on:** December 22, 2018, 10:09:00 AM »

Great story! I love things like that. There are so many yarns like that out there which will never be recorded and they are always a joy to hear. Truck looks good too!

Christmas project here is to finish the Thornycroft and try it on the road. Mind you, if the weather doesn't improve, the workshop may prove more attractive!

Steve

News:

Author Topic: Ancient Lorries with Monster Engines! (Read 8852 times)